Instant Feedback Button

[vickyblueeyez]

Title:
Instant Feedback Button

Area:
Posts

Summary:
Similar to the Facebook 'like' button, have a 'favorite' button, kudos, etc. Some sort of button, where if a person likes an entry but doesn't want to comment, they can leave some sort of feedback.

Description:
As somewhat of an author, it's frustrating when one doesn't get reviews. I may not get reviews but I do see when people favorite one of my stories on another site. That site keeps track of how many have favorite your work. Since many authors might be coming here, I think having some kind of like/favorite/kudos button would be great. Fanfiction.net and DeviantArt.com have similar options.

Poll #6525 Instant Feedback Button

Open to: Registered Users, detailed results viewable to: All, participants: 278

View Respondents

This suggestion:

View Answers

Should be implemented as-is.
165 (59.4%)

Should be implemented with changes. (please comment)
46 (16.5%)

Shouldn't be implemented.
44 (15.8%)

(I have no opinion)
17 (6.1%)

(Other: please comment)
6 (2.2%)

Comments

[ninetydegrees]

Duplicate of http://dw-suggestions.dreamwidth.org/404806.html?

[ninetydegrees]

While it makes sense on sites where content is very similar, it doesn't make sense to me on sites where it isn't. There is everything and anything on Dreamwidth. On some posts, having such a button would be irrelevant or, worse, inappropriate. It seems to me authors, artists, etc. can easily implement this via anonymous polls.

[northern]

It could be an opt-in feature - something to check in a checkbox if you wanted it. Where it's inappropriate, you could just choose not to have it.

Alternatively, it could work as it does on facebook (although I know that some people hate facebook and see red whenever it's mentioned - I'm taking a risk here in case you are one) where people sometimes do click the "like" by mistake. A lot of the time what happens after that is that they click "unlike" right away after. But yes, sometimes there are inappropriate "like"s. For me, it's definitely worth it, to have the feature.

[ratcreature]

I find it too ambiguous for the variety of entries, because with journals you leave quick, generic fb comments for many different things, not just creative works. As a result user A might think that the appreciation button on the memorial page for the dead pet equals the generic "hugs" or "I'm sorry" comment to express sympathy, when poster B reads it as "why does this jerk 'like' that my pet died?" It wouldn't be as bad if you had to intentionally choose to include it, but for most entries I find it not so useful.

What I like about the deviantArt favorite button is that it is not just feedback, but allows people to build galleries and bookmark things, so they have memories and I get more traffic if I'm fav'ed. I would like it if DW developed/reformed the memories feature into such a social bookmarking thing, so that I could get notified if someone chooses to memorize one of my posts as a public memory, and browsing the memories was easier.

[stormy]

That would be interesting to propose for another suggestion, but I think in here it's too similar to the already existing memories section. Perhaps a memories overhaul then?

[jerakeen]

I could take it or leave it for personal journals, but I do feel a +1 button would be useful for my rec comms.

[matgb]

I've ticked with changes as, while I actually like the idea (as discussed above0 and think a "+1" feature for comments and posts would be both used and useful, i have another parallel proposal that links to what you've said or one of your solutions.

memories are, medium term, due for a complete overhaul, it's been discussed they should be some sort of social bookmarking feature, or a type of 'favourites' feature. Either way, they should have the option to be public or be locked down in some way.

However, if they are public, it might be nice to have some way of posts displaying who has saved them as favourites or memories or whatever, and possibly even listing the tags used or linking to that memory so people can follow links to other useful posts, etc.

This would, I think, be a valid solution to your suggestion, but also be a good feature for the memories, if that's how they end up going. Thoughts?

[existence]

Oh, hey, I personally like the outlines of this modification. Changing my vote in support of this.

[jumpuphigh]

I like the broad strokes of this idea but I think it needs to be defined better before it is implemented - if it is implemented. There are too many ways it can be perceived wrong by people.

[dhamphir]

I don't care for this idea at all. WHY does every darn site lately have to emulate FB?? I'm here because I don't want to be on FB, MySpace, AO3, FFnet, etc. If I wanted that kind of environment, I'd be there instead of here.

[arethinn]

Hum. A generalized "like"-like function... I dunno, it reeks of Facebook to me and I'm one of those who feels "if I wanted Facebook, I'd be on Facebook" and prefers minimizing cross-pollination of distinctive features.

Also, I think I agree with ninetydegrees that it makes more sense on sites like AO3, etc., where the content is of similar type and not largely journaling/blogging in nature (I know there are accounts used solely for fic, art posts, etc. but I think they are the minority).

If it were opt-in by poster I'd turn it off. If it were also opt-in by reader (so that I would not see it even on journals that had it turned on)... well, I suppose I could manage to ignore it, but that sounds like a lot of implementation and server thinking overhead.

[matgb]

A generalized "like"-like function... I dunno, it reeks of Facebook to me and I'm one of those who feels "if I wanted Facebook, I'd be on Facebook" and prefers minimizing cross-pollination of distinctive features

See, the suggestion includes a variety of possible implementations, including 'like' as per YouTube and Facebook, 'Kudos' as per MySpace and Ao3, an improved memories feature as per LJ/DW, a 'favourites' feature as per Twitter, or other options as per different sites I've never used.

Plus, if we're going to sobject to distinctive features of other sites, then Facebook couldn't exist, as a large part of its backend code is very very reliant on features created by Livejournal, etc.

(I know there are accounts used solely for fic, art posts, etc. but I think they are the minority)

Dislike this argument completely. I know there are entirely friends only journals, but I know they're in the minority, let's not bother keeping that option in the next UI change. There are some that post everything public and searchable, but given most users like our privacy features, let's minimise search inclusion by default so that the site is of no use to public facing writers, etc etc etc.

This isn't a feature I'd use much, I suspect, but it's a feature I can see a large number actually do use already, albeit in different forms.

Two of my most wanted features won't be used by many people at all, but for those they'll be used by, they'll be incredibly useful. The "minority interest" argument simply cannot apply on DW, as we're all a bunch of minority, edge case users.

Besides, sometimes a journal post simply needs a simple *hugs*, if its customisable, I can imagine a large number of people really appreciating that as an option, especially on posts where they might want to turn actual comments off.

This is good.

[rho]

I'm somewhat torn over this one. Generally, I think that this is something that's worth doing, but only if it can be done right. A half-hearted or botched implementation of this would end up just being awkward and annoying and would create more problems than it solves, but I think that it would be a nice thing to have if it was done properly. I suspect that the best way to do this is to implement it alongside the planned overhaul of the memories feature. This would mean it wouldn't appear any time soon, but I think that that's worth it for getting it done right.

[musyc]

I'm wavery on this. I like the idea of being able to leave a kudos/heart/symbolicwhatever on a post if I have nothing to say but do want to let my friends know that I've read. I'm not certain about the implementation. Opt-in is my preference (keeping in mind denise's lovely explanation of why options can be bad). I wouldn't want to see it implemented as a series of comments filling up the post, but I do like the idea of a "X number of people clicked the ticky - click the ticky?" line as a notice line at the end of the entry.

[kerravonsen]

There are a lot of pros and cons on this, and from the discussion, it's obviously a controversial feature. Until there's an implementation that people can agree on, I don't think this is ever going to get off the ground.

[marahmarie]

Well, if it got to that point, theoretically, then there could be a poll. With "most votes for a certain implementation" the winner. There has to be some way to narrow it down so we can all agree to agree/disagree on the final result, and even tweak it if necessary.

As to the "too much like Facebook" comments, which I'm literally too tired to make a separate reply to: "like" to me is similar to "thumbs up" on Digg, which was the first place on the Web I ever saw it, back in 2005-2006. Pre-dates FB's adaption by years.

It's not Facebook-y so much as it's social web-y, so, having the memory that I do of such things, I don't see anything wrong with it (or anything purely Facebook-like about it), as long as it remains an optional feature.

[instantramen]

As far as I'm concerned likes, favorites, etc. are Twinkies and actual comments are potatoes. Twinkies are tasty but not really satisfying (unless you have an unstoppable craving, but that's neither here nor there), but even a small potato makes your whole body happy (unless you really don't like potatoes, in which case just change the metaphor to an apple or carrots or a nice chunk of ham).

I like Twinkies every once in a while, so I do post some of my fic to dedicated archives and have a Facebook account where the people I grew up with can see I still exist, but for more useful feedback and online interactions I prefer the websites where the culture revolves around actually saying something (even if it's just "+1" or "this was awesome!" or "*hugs*") when you want to respond.

[fyreharper]

This. I've been trying to figure out why the idea of a Like/+1/Thumbs Up button on DW bothers me so much, and I think this is it: I like the culture of people actually saying something. I'd rather have people decide what to say - even if they all say pretty much the same thing, and it's something short like +1 or *hugs* or whatever - than have people ticky the ticky-box. Because pressing a button is impersonal - but easier, and doesn't require thinking, so people are likely to do it instead of actually using words.

I don't really want to have the option to ticky the ticky-box on entries I'm reading either - because I feel like that changes the culture to "you only say something if you have something important to say, otherwise you shut up and tick the ticky-box".

I can definitely see how such a button would be useful/desirable in places like fic journals/rec communities. I'm not sure how to implement it in such areas without having it show up all over the place, in areas where I'd get grumpy about seeing it. Maybe I'm too cynical about other people's probable choices regarding their own journals. ;p

Short(er) version: I don't want to see it, because I like having all the responses be in words (ok, or images sometimes). But I can see some applications where it might be useful, so I'm having trouble just saying "no, don't do it".

[thorfinn]

One of the problems of online communication actually is a lack of "body language". The like/+1/etc adds that layer - a simple non-verbal equivalent of turning to face the conversation. In a way, this is actually "track" - but track is a word with a connotation of hiding and does not do the important bit - generate an indicator to everyone that the post/comment is being tracked.

I'm not sure there is a word that everyone would find appropriate for all journals, so what I'd like is for +1 as a default, and the option to turn it off per post or to default it off for all posts, and the word itself to be editable per post (as per current music metadata).

I am unsure if clicking it should also track - I think it should from an end user perspective, but there appear to be back end reasons why track needs limitations.

Hrm: alternately, change "track" to "watch" and change it to display a count of watchers (and list if clicked)?

[stealthily]

Don't we already have a track/watch button though? Are you suggesting that we merge it with this "like" idea? I disagree, I dislike that on FB just because I liked something once doesn't mean I want to follow on a whole 64-reply unrelated conversation between friends of friends. Yet they end up in my inbox nonetheless. If I commented I obviously do want to be invovled in the conversation, but not if I just clicked to say "this is cool".

[white_aster]

I think this is a great idea. It makes soliciting feedback easier, and honestly, anything that makes you feel like you're being paid attention to makes people more likely to stay with a service and be productive.

Most of the comments here seem to be about how people don't want it called "like" and how they don't want to have clutter on their reading list.

Easy fixes? Have it be opt-in to put it on the post (a checkbox on the posting page), and have it be "kudos" or "nod" (as in giving a nod to someone) or something similar...and when someone clicks the kudos button, don't do anything to the post or how it's formatted or anything: just send a notice to the OP.

I don't think that the original requester here is asking for an exact implementation of the Facebook like feature: with the reposting on your 'wall' of what you liked or a listing on the original post of who liked it. It just sounds like they're asking for an easy way to get the same thing as the anonymous "I read this!" poll...without having to fight with the posting page to put one on all the time.

...I honestly don't understand why so many folks are opposed to this. Are you opposed to people putting anonymous "I read this!" polls at the end of their posts? Isn't this just asking for a shortcut to do the same thing?

[cheyinka]

I have no problem with the anonymous "I read this!" polls at the end of posts, because I've only ever seen them on fic. For me there's an enormous difference between "You might not have the time and/or energy to leave feedback right now, but would you at least indicate you read the fic?" and "You might not have the time and/or energy to comment on my post about [my cat having kittens, my sister joining the Army, my basement flooding], but would you at least indicate that you [agree with, support] me?" - the one feels like a bonus for me so I don't feel guilty for not commenting, the other would feel like an obligation to indicate agreement or to write a comment expressing my lack of agreement, lest it look like I was skipping the post, since "I didn't have time to write a comment" or "I didn't know what to say" wouldn't be plausible social fictions anymore.

I would be more okay with the increment-the-counter thingies if they had to be opt-in on a post-by-post (and comment-by-comment, I guess) basis; the clutter was never the issue for me, so I wouldn't mind a "9 people have [incremented the counter on] this comment" mention.

[trinity_clare]

Dear (generic) people who are worried this will make DW too much like Facebook: it will also make DW more like YouTube, Twitter, Digg and every single Digg-imitating link aggregator, and the AO3. (Possibly Tumblr; I don't know enough about Tumblr.) Surely all those sites can't be evil?

Honestly, though, the idea matgb had upthread is perfect -- if mems get overhauled into some sort of social bookmarking tool, there could easily be a way of displaying the number of (public) bookmarks a post has. (Delicious is probably my favorite place on the internet, so possibly I am a little biased.)

[yvi]

That's actually in the spec I once wrote for it and that was discussed on... dw_biz I think..

[vlion]

+1/Like essentially serves for me the purpose of:

"This"

"I agree"

"Seconded"

"IAWTC"

All of those have been used to greater or lesser extent in my time on LJ/DW, especially in more active communities.

After a while, it'd be nice not see that noise in my signal: a comment should be an actual *comment*, not a "IAWTC".

[torachan]

Every other site I use regularly has this sort of function and I really, really miss it on DW.

I honestly don't understand the objections at all. Many other sites that use it (such as tumblr, FB, youtube) have the same sort of varied content as on DW, so there is the same potential problem with someone "liking" your post about your dead grandma or whatever. It may happen very rarely, but in general it doesn't because most people are not asshole trolls out to make you go cry under your desk.

But if it's that much of an issue for people, then I don't see why it couldn't be an option, rather than a blanket feature for everyone. But it really feels like DW is stuck in the stone age not to have something like this, and it bugs me because there are a zillion posts that I want to show apprectiation for, but I don't just want to make a comment saying "I agree" or whatever.

[busaikko]

+1

It could be part of the 'post' page: add a button or not, just like screen comments or not.

[randomfish]

The site I use "buttons" on the most and I feel has the best implementation is Ravelry. There are multiple buttons (Like, Dislike, Educational, Funny...), and you can choose to not display them.

If you could choose to display them on either a site-wide basis (for people who don't want to even see them) or a post-by-post basis (just like disallowing or limiting comments), I think that would address most of the concerns I've seen posted? Especially if seeing the button or buttons was an opt-in feature.

[indywind]

I agree with this comment.

[quivo]

Ialmost feel like the Facebook mention might doom this feature in many people's eyes, even though it's one I'd like to have over here. I know the memories overhaul is coming, but I rather think this could fit in along the spectrum somewhere. Hitting +1 or 'nod' to a comment or post I liked or agreed with or whatever shouldn't have anything to do with whether I want to bookmark it or not, although having that option alongside would be awesome for posts and comments both. I wouldn't mind stuff I'd nodded at being put in some sort of stream where I could go through and look for bookmarkable things or trace down interesting discussions.

I also kind of want to put my vote out for this because I've always had lurking phases, where I didn't have the energy or time to comment, but would have have liked the option to go adding +1 everywhere. Dreamwidth having a culture of rich conversations and people saying stuff to each other in comments really doesn't take into account that part of a conversation, where you nod or otherwise show your agreement with what has been said. It often feels like no one else is watching when only a couple of people comment to something I've written, and even though I've lurked enough to know that's not true, it *is* true that there's no space for watchers and listeners with nothing specific to say to participate in a post like that.

The feature would obviously have to be opt-in and granular, so you could have nods on for posts but not comments, comments but not posts, etc, and having the system set up to monitor things you +1ed would be really nice. Like a way of saying, here's what I'm looking at, here's what I'm watching or reading, in a more fluid and non-commitant way than outright adding a journal to your flist.

My two cents on this, I guess. Especially as regards connecting the feature to a bookmarking one-- I'd hate having so many useless bookmarks if I had to use the system to 'like' things, and I'd also hate having to make my bookmarks somewhat public or countable to make them visible to the author.

[theninth]

I like this, but I can see where the dissenters are coming from. "Like" isn't really the right word because so many people interpret that as "I like what happened" and not "I like that you wrote about this."

Someone further up the line said "Nod" and something like that might be better. Or just a checkmark. Just something to indicate "I hear you/I read this" and not something that could be taken as "I like this".

I'd also really like to have something along these lines for comments

[hamimi_fk]

I really like this idea, but I can understand why others would feel uncomfortable about it. It would be interesting to see this feature with either an option where someone who writes an entry can toggle on/off the feature (perhaps that could be a paid account ability?) or implement the feature so it becomes like a tumblr/facebook/whatever 'Like' and the post is automatically bookmarked as a favorite (very much preferred as it would cut down the amount of bookmarks on my browser!). A nice mix of both would be great too.

[sporky_rat]

I'm necro'ing this. If someone has to pay to NOT have that button on there? They're not going to stay.

[sprat]

I would love to have this as an opt-in feature for each post. There have been many times when I've avoided leaving comments because I don't have the time or energy to think of something to say, and I think this is the case for lots of readers. If it turns out that you're seeing a reduction in substantive comments after you start enabling this feature for your posts, you could always leave it unchecked in future. But I don't actually think that will be the case.

[helens78]

I really want this feature!

I'm gonna call them "tickys" as I ramble, based on the fact that "ticky" is a more LJ/DW-common-use scenario; many user-created polls contain a "ticky" button to allow people to mark their attention even if they don't have a comment on the substance of a poll.

Awesome scenario #1: This would be implemented as a hybrid, parallel form of metadata and comments, where you could a. name it whatever you want on a per-post basis, and b. disable it globally or on a per-post basis, or choose not to have comments emailed, or limit it to registered users or circle members only. Banning a user from your journal would also ban them from leaving tickys. But ticky settings should be independent of comments, so you could leave comments on but disable tickys, or turn comments off and enable tickys.

Awesome scenario #2: Forget custom naming (although maybe people could rename it in custom styles, just not sitescheme?), it's optional, but keep the rest, and allow tickys on comments as well. Tickys on comments to be determined by owner of the journal having the conversation, please; yes, you might go to a ticky-user's journal and be forced to have your comment tickyed, but their journal, their preferences.



I am in favor of tickys because it is a form of communication and helps engender community and relationships, in a way that can enhance comments rather than replacing them or taking away from them. When someone isn't commenting, it's impossible to know if it's because they're lost for words, aren't on a platform suitable for lengthy comments (how many users read the site from smartphones now?), don't have a lot of spoons, have to conserve typing time... or aren't reading and don't care. Seeing people's names crop up repeatedly in tickys helps us discover who out there is giving us their time and attention, and can be a greatly-appreciated form of support, even or especially in times when hearing, and feeling obliged to respond to, many individual comments can feel overwhelming.

In addition, it can help clear out the signal-to-noise ratio of having several commenters saying "+1" or "IAWTC", a situation most prone to occurring in 50+ comment entries where paid users must expand threads one at a time and unpaid users must click on each individual thread and back-button to see if they're missing any of the conversation.

I'm pretty sure I've had DW relationships atrophy not because the other user and I weren't reading, but because we didn't know where to start, or how to begin a conversation. With tickys, there's a separate, parallel way to keep in touch. It doesn't replace comments in times I would ordinarily comment. What it replaces is NOT commenting. I am highly in favor of a ticky feature!

I'd like to retire this icon so I co-sign this comment.

[amadi]

.

[takemyrevolution]

This would be useful for more than just fan fiction feedback. There are frequently posts - political posts, personal posts, etc. - that I like or agree with, but I have no idea what to say in a comment.

People who don't like the "like button" feature always have the option of not using it.

[finch]

I use FB occasionally, but I see this as much more like the <3 on Tumblr. If I <3 something, it means I've read it and I can find it again. If a post has 10k <3s I know it's probably something I should check out, which reminds me more of Digg or Stumble Upon than FB.

So yeah, basically, this is a feature lots of other sites have, and it's way more useful on some of them than it is on Facebook, and I'm in favor of that.