"LJ Cut "Titles as Subtitles

[aurora_novarum]

Title:
"LJ Cut "Titles as Subtitles

Area:
entries

Summary:
Having the "title" language of cuts appear in the full text of the entry.

Description:
Multiple LJ cuts are sometimes used as subheadings within an entry, but when you click on the first cut, the whole entry appears and any/all subsequent cuts disappear.

If you want to keep the flow of the entry, you have to "repeat" the cut by copying the lj-cut text again as some kind of title or bold text.

Even for initial cuts, sometimes people use the text in the title to start off a thought that they continue in the actual entry itself, but that title again disappears.

If the lj-cut text could always appear within the document, it would make things much simpler and maintain the original flow and setup of the entry. I can't count the number of times I've had to go back to my reading list or the journal itself to reread the subsequent cuts and follow where the flow of thought changes (or go back and edit my own entries to have the cut title language show up twice--as a cut and as a subheading).

Sure, you can just have the cuts as the default "read more" and the title separate (which is what I did before I figured out the lj-cut title="title here"* format.

I'm not a coding person to know how difficult or easy such a change would be, but I know on communities where there are moderated entries (it's how we as mods catch when one's been forgotten), lj-cuts appear as blue titles within the document, so maybe something similar could happen on actual entries.

* P.S. What is the dreamwidth equivalent of coding "lj-cut"?

Poll #954 "LJ Cut "Titles as Subtitles

Open to: Registered Users, detailed results viewable to: All, participants: 58

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This suggestion:

View Answers

Should be implemented as-is.
10 (17.2%)

Should be implemented with changes.
12 (20.7%)

Shouldn't be implemented.
29 (50.0%)

(I have no opinion)
2 (3.4%)

(Other: please comment)
5 (8.6%)

Comments

[ancientsavvy]

I love the idea of this... but won't it make all the existing posts with the work around of repeating the cut text have repeating section titles? I personally don't want to go back and fix old posts. Not sure I'd care enough to do that if it did cause this issue, but others might care a lot more.

[aurora_novarum]

Yeah, it would repeat, wouldn't it? I wouldn't care so much either.

Although there are other objections raised below that make more sense. :-/

[yvi]

* P.S. What is the dreamwidth equivalent of coding "lj-cut"?

"cut"

My reasons against:

a) backwards-compatibility: already existing entries and entries that will be imported

b) many people don't use cuts that way - and if I don't want this text to appear in my entry in this case, I couldn't give my cut a title at all

c) that would mean no other HTML could be added specifically to that portion of the entry, so even if I want to use the same title, I couldn't make it appear centered.

[aurora_novarum]

* P.S. What is the dreamwidth equivalent of coding "lj-cut"?

"cut"

Oh, thanks! :-)

a. I didn't think of the issues with backwards compatibility. It would repeat repeat often often. But I don't know that would bother me as much.

b. They don't? Granted my blogging experience is relatively limited, but I'd been seeing it that way a lot. Either making things as titles or as the beginning of a sentence that's then continued under the cut. Now I'm curious how people use cuts (maybe I've been doing it "wrong".)

c. This is why you guys are the tech-minded.

[yvi]

But I don't know that would bother me as much.

Well, I can imagine all of the fanfic authors who suddenly have their title appearing twice would be bothered :)

Now I'm curious how people use cuts (maybe I've been doing it "wrong".)

You are definitely not. However, I do stuff like "continue behind the cut" and "text cut for length" or "poll behind the cut" or "10 images", and a lot of people do as well. Just because I *know* the text won't show up on the entry page I try to explain the cut.

c. This is why you guys are the tech-minded.

Thsi is actuall the point I am not sure about. But if I put the title of my story in my cut I also want it bolded and centered and I am not sure whether that would work then.

[archangelbeth]

As a fic writer, if the LJ-cut text appeared in a different color, I would personally not be overmuch bothered. It'd look, properly, like the code-implementation had changed slightly and while mildly repetitive... I could fix it as it came up if it really bugged me. It wouldn't look like I was being a complete idjit and repeating text.

On the other hand, I know some writers who've posted stuff where... I kinda miss not seeing the cut-tag's title-text, actually.

Now, the really clever hack would be to make the code somehow identify if the text immediately following the cut-tag was identical to the text within the cut-tag-title, and then not duplicate. But that would probably not be easy.

Hm. I wonder if that could be a Style option? "Show cut-tag text on [my/all] individual messages"?

[triadruid]

You just made me think of another option: Insert the cut-tag text as "hover" text over the cut material, once expanded... (cursor over the word "cut-tag" to see what I mean)

[archangelbeth]

Oh, that trick.

Hm. I like it on one level, and on another level, the Luddite in me insists it's too obscure and less likely to play nice with antique browsers. Heh.

[azurelunatic]

There's no one single "right" use of the cut, except to hide what lies beneath for some reason. It's very flexible like that. Uses include:

Hiding photos (for example, "9 more photos behind the cut", which is a summary of the contents)

Hiding tl;dr (the default "read more" works here)

Concealing spoilers on the friends page (but not if linked to directly), and sometimes that could use a "Spoilers!" warning in the main text too

Censorship (I have occasionally done a "What the <lj-cut text="@#&$!">FUCK</lj-cut> is going on here?!" sort of thing)

Summary by starting the sentence (as you described, although bold/center would really not go in all cases)

Summary by continuing ("So then there was the squirrel incident, <lj-cut text="in which Ben was stupid and ultimately lost his best friend."> where Ben thought he'd play a prank on his best friend by spreading peanut butter in his shoes. Unfortunately, a squirrel discovered them before his best friend did. Also unfortunately, his best friend discovered them slightly after the squirrel did, and the squirrel did not notice him coming. Dave stepping on the squirrel might not have been all that bad if only the squirrel had not bitten him, and had the squirrel not then fled into the house (still covered in peanut butter). Even that would have been somewhat understandable under the circumstances, had only Ben not been incapacitated with laughter throughout the entire sorry affair.</lj-cut>")

...and probably more.

[angelikitten]

Censorship (I have occasionally done a "What the FUCK is going on here?!" sort of thing)

I should remember to do that more often XD

[zooey_glass]

I don't like this idea, because to me it just seems to impose the opposite problem on people who don't use their cut text as something which remains meaningful within the entry. Since it would also have no backwards compatibility and would not mesh with other sites, it would cause way mnore problems than it would solve, I think.

[yvi]

Since it would also have no backwards compatibility and would not mesh with other sites

Oh yes, crossposting.

[aurora_novarum]

Oh yes, not something I thought of. I just noticed a few people on my list lately posting stuff and screwing up trying to copy/include the lj-cut text...either copying things wrong or listing info that appears as a big blank spot on the actual entry because it's only showing in the excerpted "cut" version.

[zooey_glass]

Yes, it can get a bit pesky! But I suspect it's just one of those issues that is better addressed with user education.

[azurelunatic]

No. Not everybody uses the cut as a title. I will sometimes use it as a title, but sometimes as a summary of what lies under the cut, and I would be unbelievably annoyed if the cut text I'd used were stuffed into the middle of the paragraph.

[aurora_novarum]

Oh that's very true. That would be annoying to have weird non-sequitors in the middle of your posts.

I wonder if it could be an "option" rather than a default as it's edited, but it may be absurdly complicated.

(this is my "other")

[azurelunatic]

Now, if there were a little button that said something like "Add all the text from my cuts to the piece as titles" or something -- not a post-posting operation, but a pre-posting, voluntary operation...

But that would be more bells and whistles on the RTE.

[snakeling]

Maybe add an option to the tag. Say something like <cut text="Blahblah" show="true">?

[ninetydegrees]

+1

[susanreads]

I'd prefer that, as long as it doesn't interfere with existing posts.

[foxfirefey]

This works for me. Maybe the content of show could also be the tag surrounding it, ie:

show="h2"

Or

show="strong"

Or just "true" if it is plain.

[inarticulate]

If that can be coded, I would love it to an unreasonable degree. ♥

[green_grrl]

This. I would love this.

[triadruid]

That's the only way I'd support something like this, but it seems like a lot of work for little gain.

[fairlight]

What is that animal, in your icon, other than cute?

[triadruid]

The red panda, cutest animal on Earth. :)

[ciaan]

That could work, but I would not want the original suggestion implemented automatically for all posts.

[kate_nepveu]

That would be pretty cool.

[turlough]

I'm in two minds about this. On the one hand it's annoying when people uses meaningful cut text but don't remember to put the same text after the cut too so you've got no idea what they're talking about if you've had a tag open for a while before looking at it. On the other it would probably be a nightmare to implement any sort of backwards compatibility, not to mention cross site.

[rebelsheart]

I can see why it would be wanted, but the reasons against are good to. If this is something that could be implemented as a per(journal/post?) option, that would be cool.

[triadruid]

Check out snakeling's idea above for a per-use implementation.

http://dw-suggestions.dreamwidth.org/46713.html?thread=567929#ljcmt567929

[triadruid]

Another reverse-compatible option might be to wrap the stuff behind the cut in <span title="cut-text goes here"> - but that's not really valid HTML if you're enclosing more paragraphs, etc in it. I wouldn't want to use DIV or P because they'll insert random line breaks.