Copy of posts in email should respect cut-tag

[briarwood]

Title:
Copy of posts in email should respect cut-tag

Area:
Comments

Summary:
When someone replies to a post, the emailed copy of the post should respect the cut-tag.

Description:
Every time someone comments on a post, the email I get includes a full copy of the post replied to, as well as their response. This is really useful.

However, with Dreamwidth allowing such huge posts, occasionally this makes for one giant email. For example, a 50,000 word story that needed at least five separate posts on LJ, fits into a single post here (which I love!). When someone comments on the story, I get the whole 50,000 words in an email, plus that comment, which might be just a few words. Gmail automatically truncates such big emails, which means I have to click through several times before I can even read the comment. The links to read and reply online are at the bottom, so I can't get to them easily either. Worse, when I'm checking my mail on my mobile phone I have to download a huge email and scroll through the whole thing to get to the part I want to read. This is really, really slow, and while I love having a copy of most posts so I can make sense of comments easily, in cases like this it's much more trouble than it's worth.

Would it be possible for the emailed copy of the post to either cut off at a certain length or, better still, to respect a cut-tag, so the copy looks like the version people will see on friends pages? That would be more than enough for me to know what is being responded to, and I'd actually be able to read the emailed comment.

Poll #2472 Copy of posts in email should respect cut-tag

Open to: Registered Users, detailed results viewable to: All, participants: 63

View Respondents

This suggestion:

View Answers

Should be implemented as-is.
24 (38.1%)

Should be implemented with changes. (please comment)
15 (23.8%)

Shouldn't be implemented.
18 (28.6%)

(I have no opinion)
2 (3.2%)

(Other: please comment)
4 (6.3%)

Comments

[ratcreature]

Hasn't this been a suggestion before to truncate long emails?

I'm still really against it, because I use this comment-with-full-entry email function as a one step thing to archive story copies for myself, and to have discussion posts searchable in my Gmail account and such. That all would be pointless if I only got part of the original entry text.

[denise]

Yes, but that was "after X characters", not "after the cut" :)

[ratcreature]

Ah, minute differences. Actually there were two suggestions made as alternatives in the last post, one was to reformat with the comment on top, one to truncate:
http://dw-suggestions.dreamwidth.org/232341.html

[jaaaarne]

The fact that people keep asking for something like that is probably indication that something should be done about it already. Probably, the comment could be put to the top of the email and the quoted entry put after it? Probably, there could be an option in the notification setting handling the formatting of the notification emails, so that people could choose how they want to see their notifications?

[denise]

The fact that people keep asking about it, but repllies are so insanely conflicted and results of the discussion are not conclusive, usually means that nobody agrees, though, and when there's that much conflict, our policy is mostly "leave it at the status quo".

This really isn't the kind of thing an option would be good for, because generally, options are bad UI.

[jaaaarne]

Oh, I see. That's sad, though. :(

I'm sure this question will continue to be raised. Hopefully, someday people will reach some semblance of agreement on. :) I'll be waiting. :)

[briarwood]

when there's that much conflict, our policy is mostly "leave it at the status quo".

I understand that, but in this case the status quo means that emailed comment notifications don't actually serve their purpose (i.e. to inform me of a comment) if the post exceeds a certain length.

[archangelbeth]

For most of my email use, top-posting/bottom-quoting is EVIL AND WRONG AND MUST BE KILLED WITH FIRE. Or at least it tends to annoy me.

For replies to DW posts, I could totally live with top-posting being the default. It's more like an office-memo than a conversation. I tend to have a lot of scrolling to do when I get comments on my fic chapters...

[mskala]

Please, no top-posting!

[briarwood]

I see how that's useful, but surely the purpose of a comment notification is to, you know, notify you of the actual comment?

My point is that for many users, such as people using phones for email, the status quo fails to do that.

I know that in these broadband-rich days, a lot of people don't think much about downloading a large email, but when you're paying for every kb, it makes a huge difference.

[ratcreature]

But why would I choose to be notified of a comment I made myself if not to archive the article? I know I just commented. Sure comments that others make to my comments and to my posts primarily notify me of the comment, so there the comment is most important, but comments I make, I get mailed to have a record.

[briarwood]

Uh...maybe there's a misunderstanding here. I'm talking about replies other people have made to my own posts in my own journal (or feasibly in communities), not comments I've posted myself someplace.

I can see why you'd want the whole thing if it's a copy of your own comment. But if it's a reply to a post, surely the most important part is the reply.

As matters stand, that's what I don't receive. I get an email that tells me someone's commented, sure. But I can't see the actual comment because the email includes the whole darn post so is too big for my poor mobile phone to download.

[ratcreature]

You can (at least if you have a paid account) choose not just to get comment notifications to comments that other people make in reply to you, but also get "comment notifications" of your own comments, i.e. get a copy mailed to yourself so that you know where you have commented.

Both kinds are commonly referred to as "comment notification". They have slightly different uses, but I assume any setting affecting comment notifications would affect both.

In notifications for comments made in my own journal, I get that it can get annoying to get the same huge mail a gazillion times. And you have to scroll down through your own novel, or your post with a ton of photos to just to see what someone said to youe etc. when the main point is getting the alert that someone talked to you. But if I comment on someone else's novel, I know what I said, obviously, and I don't need the alert, but I still let DW mail myself a copy, because I simply want the whole conversation and context archived.

[jumpuphigh]

Oh, yes, please.

I would prefer to the cut tag myself.

[medrin]

I know that you're trying to keep the options down, but there are already an option for 'Cut entries in inbox', which I assume means that the messages to the inbox get the cut tag (I'm not sure, I don't have it checked). Why not make this option work for the emails too? I'm assuming that the same people who want them cut in the inbox will want them cut in the emails.

[sorchasilver]

This!

[ratcreature]

That is a good idea for a compromise. If there already is a related option it wouldn't really be the dreaded option creep (though I don't mind options that much, personally, definitely not when they allow me to keep the emails complete).

[melannen]

+1

[afuna]

I like entries cut in my inbox, but I'd prefer the full text in emails, because I use it sometimes to search for half-remembered context, so this wouldn't work as well for me :-(

[cheyinka]

I can easily imagine someone who'd want entries cut in the inbox (because they're already on Dreamwidth and can just go to the post) but not in e-mail (because that's an off-site archive for them, because they can get to e-mail from work but not Dreamwidth, or afuna's reason, so that they can search those copies of posts), so I don't think that'd be an ideal solution.

[zvi]

Except that you would be wrong that people would want the same thing both places. I absolutely do want cut tags in the inbox, and I absolutely don't want cut tags in my e-mail.

I want cut-tags in my inbox because it's a continuous scroll of unrelated info, and I can scan through the whole of it faster when there are cut tags.

I don't want cut tags in my e-mail, because I find them useful as records of what was actually said at the time.

[azurelunatic]

Absolutely not, unless it were an option one could turn on.

However, I would be all for moving the useful links up to the top.

[noracharles]

+1

[cheyinka]

Yeah, I can see this option being good for some people, but I really wouldn't like it.

Putting the links first works with me, though.

[eruthros]

+1

[zarhooie]

As always most-of-the-time, Azz has said what is already in my head. +1 azzie love.

[tephra]

My ideal would be comment and links at the top, post underneath, but just the links at the top would be better than it is now.

[zooey_glass]

Comment and links at the top would be the ideal solution to me.

[kyrielle]

+1. I'd prefer not to get the comment top-posted as some are suggesting above and below, though I could live with it, but moving the links to the top at a minimum seems like a very good idea.

[everysecondtuesday]

I like the idea of moving read and reply links to the top, but would prefer either having the option in settings to have e-mail respect the cut tag or continue to post in full or, given the option of only one or the other, would prefer to continue to have the post in full.

[musyc]

Big no. I keep emailed copies of comments because they provide the entire post for me. Would only want this if it were opt-in.

[order_of_chaos]

I'd quite like an option (optional opt-in option) to have emails respect the cut-tag if over a certain length, and just act like normal if not over that length. Maybe even make us able to choose the length at which to start respecting the cut.

[briarwood]

That would be just perfect :)

[kerravonsen]

+1

[stellar_dust]

Add me to the "make it opt-in, highly customizable, and/or put comments at the top" group.

[zing_och]

I don't want this. I'm not always online and would have to re-establish an internet connection after downloading mail to see the whole post.

It'd be good if the comment were at the top of the post, though.

[goodbyebird]

A cut off at a certain length would be useful, though only when it's a very long post.

[cesy]

I really want to keep the ability to archive a whole post or whole discussion.

[triadruid]

I desperately want this; the comments above about using it as an archive make no sense to me, as it's not the *purpose* of comment notifications to serve as an archive. There are a gazillion ways to purposefully archive your posts - why does this feature have to have double-purpose which makes it so hard to use for its original purpose? :(

[kyrielle]

I like receiving the whole post and my comment because I have a copy of the post. In some cases, that's the ONLY way I can reread a post after a journal is deleted. Other than saving the html manually (not so doable if I'm not on my home computer at the time), nothing else accomplishes that. And sometimes in order to "get" the meaning of the comment I need the whole post because it responds to just the last paragraph or something, which I won't see if the last paragraph has been deleted.

I REALLY REALLY HATE Dreamwidth's stance about options, frankly. Because I understand why you desperately want this, and I desperately want this NOT to be done, and that is a great time for an option.

Unless, of course, you hate options so your users are screwed when opinions are a) strongly held and b) sharply divided.

[sofiaviolet]

What about modifying the Cut Tag in Inbox from its current one-ticky form to "Cut entries in []Inbox []comment notification emails"?

While it does add an option, it puts the new option right next to a related one, and avoids adding another section to the Display tab.

Issues: Display tab might be a non-intuitive place to look for an email content setting.

[susanreads]

+1

Otherwise, we need a multi-option poll, where people can rank the proposed solutions, because there are several in comments here.

[ursamajor]

I like this. It's just expanding an existing option slightly, not making a new one.

[aedifica]

+1