Improvements for preview pop-ups

[ninetydegrees]

Title:
Improvements for preview pop-ups

Area:
entries

Summary:
This is a new version of my previous suggestion : https://dw-suggestions.dreamwidth.org/1492300.html. As lightboxes, which are what I was thinking of, are entirely unpractical and users prefer pop-ups it is best to keep preview windows as pop-ups. However, I find previews a bit impractical in their current form because they don't let you post your entry, nor get closed automatically when you've posted it. I'm also wondering if we need to see more than your entry in the preview window. If I preview my entry in the site skin for example, a good portion of the window (viewport) is occupied by the site header, making me scroll down if my entry is a bit long. Do you, fellow users, find being able to see (and use) the header useful?

Description:
These are the things I'm suggesting but feel free to come up with other ideas, or better ways to implement them:
*A 'post your entry now' button (copyright to sporky_rat) in the preview window which will post your entry (duh) but also close the preview window and trigger the success page in your main tab.
*As the preview window is not being updated dynamically, a 'back to editing' button which closes the preview window and brings you back to your editing tab (you're still free to refresh the window if you prefer keeping both tabs open and doing things that way)
*Or, if that can be implemented, a preview window which is being updated as you type (jducoeur also mentioned having editing and preview side-by-side or top-to-bottom which I think is an interesting idea. I don't know how accessible it is, if users would prefer it, how it would work on smaller screens, etc.)
*A preview window where the actual entry is more prominently displayed and other elements are hidden or do not take so much space (like a light version of the site skin/your journal or maybe only for users who display entries in the site skin?).

Poll #18050 Improvements for preview pop-ups

Open to: Registered Users, detailed results viewable to: All, participants: 24

View Respondents

This suggestion:

View Answers

Should be implemented as-is.
6 (25.0%)

Should be implemented with changes. (please comment)
3 (12.5%)

Shouldn't be implemented.
7 (29.2%)

(I have no opinion)
8 (33.3%)

(Other: please comment)
0 (0.0%)

Comments

[marahmarie]

If I preview my entry in the site skin for example, a good portion of the window (viewport) is occupied by the site header, making me scroll down if my entry is a bit long

How is this done? In six years on DW I've never seen it. My entries preview in my style only (same as you see with my custom CSS), and I thought that was the only way they could be shown.

A 'post your entry now' button

So if I hit this button because I think my entry's good to go but in my excitement forgot to add tags or change the time and/or date or the security as I was planning to, I'd have to go back to the editor to change those things after the fact, unless functionality to include those things were also added to the preview page. As I am not the most mentally organized person posting from preview might create a bit of a challenge...

[ninetydegrees]

The option's @ https://www.dreamwidth.org/manage/settings/?cat=display: Entry Page Default: Your Journal

And for other journals: Entry Pages: Shown to You

When you post your entry, you land on a success page you have a link called 'edit your entry'. The same would be true here.
I forget these all the time so it wouldn't really make a difference to me but I do see what you mean. I don't know how to make it better: adding tag fields and such to the preview would make it too cluttered I think.

[marahmarie]

I don't think I ever connected how choosing to see pages in a certain style or view made the previews display that way, as well! I thought whatever your chosen journal style was (the CSS version, whether a site layout or one you make yourself) was the way your previews would automatically display. Good to know...

When you post your entry, you land on a success page you have a link called 'edit your entry'. The same would be true here.

Yeah, and when you have a default security setting of Access only (like I do) but want a post to display publicly, you have no choice but to edit after posting to change security level, which means I'm making two extra clicks, scrolling to the page end and hitting a dropdown to swap the security level no matter what, so for people who have their settings as I do, I can see the point, but for those people who don't need to switch security after posting, it's otherwise a case of having to make extra clicks to fix anything forgotten.

I actually like the idea of sticking everything needed to complete a post on the preview page, if you're going to have a button to post from there on it anyhow, but I guess that's added work to code up and could result in some extra bandwidth being used and page space being taken up, which might not be desirable (or maybe the needed tools could be set up as a fly-out sidebar that hides until needed? Doing so might reduce extra server load, as well as hide things away until needed so one can still see the preview page without clutter?).

[ninetydegrees]

Hmm. I'm not sure I understand where the extra clicks come from. I'm not suggesting moving the post button from the editor to the preview. You would still be able to use whichever you want.

[marahmarie]

I'm just saying if the post button is in the preview window then people might want other tools they need to get their posts ready to be in the window as well, because once you hit the "post from preview" button, then you'd have to go back (make extra clicks) to the actual post editor afterward to fix anything you forgot (like to write tags or to change a date or timestamp).

Making extra clicks as things stand was only about post security levels: people who have the "Access only" post security level set have to make extra clicks to re-open each post in the editor to change the security level to Public, so we'll be making extra clicks, anyhow.

So I'm saying that because people who have to change security settings on posts have to get back in the editor after posting, that even adding a post from preview button wouldn't change that - not unless DW changed how post security settings work, altogether.

[ninetydegrees]

Oh, ok I get it. Thanks for explaining it to me.

Yeah, I really do wish we could change the security setting as we post even if it's lower than minimum security.

[denise]

We don't do that because it would be too easy for someone to accidentally change their security level on the update page without realizing, then publicly post something they thought would be locked. Because it can be a security/privacy issue, we make people explicitly choose to make the security less restrictive than their default (ie, edit the post after posting and explicitly choose to make it less restrictive) rather than risking a misclick, a browser glitch, or an extension accidentally changing the security setting at the time of update.

[marahmarie]

I'm sure the idea's been shot down before or it'd probably be in place by now, considering there can't be a single person on DW who likes having to re-open the post editor after posting just to change the post security level. It's one of the worst PITAs going with posting and probably won't change even with the new editor in the works.

And sorry if my first reply was a bit confusing, I switched my sleep schedule around and need a lot of coffee at that hour to be as coherent as I normally am only about 12 hours later. :)

[jducoeur]

If we're going to stick with pop-out preview windows, then yeah -- this sounds about right to me.

As usual, it's all about UX. At the moment, you have to manually flip back and forth between the Create Entry page and the preview -- either by clicking on tabs or closing the preview window. Providing buttons to do that right in-page would be a small but definite improvement in this workflow: it fixes a little pain point that I've been noticing.

My one tweak would be that the "Back to Editing" button, instead of closing the Preview Window, would ideally just front the Create Entry tab, leaving the Preview Window open but behind -- by avoiding opening and closing the Preview Window repeatedly, it would speed things up slightly, and make the flow a little more natural. (I don't recall with 100% confidence that it's possible to front the parent window like this, but I *think* it can be done.)

Coupled with this: IMO, the Preview Window *should* auto-close when you actually post the entry -- at that point, it really has no purpose any more. I was a little surprised that that wasn't already the case; offhand, I'm not coming up with any use cases where that seems like a bad idea.

And yes, it seems totally natural to me that the Preview Window should contain a "Post Entry" button. Again, I was slightly surprised that that wasn't already available.

jducoeur also mentioned having editing and preview side-by-side or top-to-bottom which I think is an interesting idea.

I should be clear that my suggestion is specifically to have just the *content* of the post be previewed in this style, not the entire page as it works now. It's conceptually rather different from the current approach.

[kyrielle]

The preview window auto-closing when you post is the only part of this I actually want.

If the post button is added to the preview, then sooner or later I will use it when I don't mean to, and probably post with a less-restrictive security than I meant to, and have to fix it and worry about who saw it before I did, and all that. I mean, it's there, so I might use it even tho it doesn't fit my usual processing/posting flow.

And I really don't want it cluttered with all the other options to avoid that, because then it won't be so much a preview as a big fancy editor and you might as well in-line it in the form (also, IMO, not desirable).

[jducoeur]

While I sympathize, I'm don't think I agree. This is a "different strokes" sort of situation, but it's not that hard for you to simply get into the habit of ignoring the button if you really don't want to use it. I mean, it's awfully easy to post with the wrong access level from the Create Post screen as well -- there's no substitute for paying attention.

Not allowing others to have the convenience doesn't seem quite fair. For some of us, it's exactly the desireable workflow...

[kyrielle]

It is! I wish I could remove the upper Post Entry on that page also, so only the one at the very bottom existed.

I wish there were a good way to handle both - but which trumps, convenience or privacy? Honestly for me it is privacy...then again, that's easy for me to say since I don't find the additional button convenient.

[jducoeur]

Right -- and for me it's convenience, since it's quite rare for me to post non-public entries, and I post pretty often these days.

One downside of DW's flexibility is that one size doesn't necessarily fit all...

[coprime]

I like the "post entry now" button, and I think having a "back to the editor" button next to the "post entry now" button would be useful. I don't have an opinion on the other suggestions.

[susanreads]

I'm very dubious about a "post now" button (for the reasons other people have commented on) and not particularly bothered about the middle two, but that last one is something I want. Specifically, when I click Preview I want to see my post rendered. I don't want the header etc. taking up space, and the sidebar would be useful if the Tags link worked, but it doesn't (I think it has the wrong subdomain, www instead of my username). While we're talking about updating the preview window, is there a reason it doesn't have a Back button? If I click on a link to check that I formatted it correctly, I have to close the window and re-open it to get back to my post preview. (I'm not using the Post Entry beta, if that makes a difference.)