Discuss removing "check spelling" from quick-reply commenting form

[denise]

Title:
Discuss removing "check spelling" from quick-reply commenting form

Area:
commenting

Summary:
This suggestion is for informational purposes: we're in the first steps of redesigning the commenting form to make a bunch of things possible that would be VERY HARD right now, and we're trying to figure out which bits are utterly useful and which can safely be removed.

Description:
So, we want to add a few things to the quick-reply comment form (the inline one that shows up when you hit "comment to this entry", NOT the one that you get when you hit "more options" that's a separate page). Because it's been years since the commenting workflow has been touched -- I think the last time it got any attention was when the inline quick-reply form was first introduced and I'm pretty sure that was in like 2004 -- and we've tried to shoehorn in a few things since then, the existing inline commenting form is kind of dire.

(The big thing we're aiming at is working up some way that will let you comment as one of your other accounts without logging out of the account you're in now and having to log into that one, and allow you to specify icons other than the default, the way you can't if you use the "comment as other user" on the More Options page. But there are a few other things we could do if we did a redesign.)

Fu and I are in the very very very first stages of sketching possibilities and discussing what the revision should look like, but one of the things we're sticking on is that it's hard to add the "check spelling" option logically: it doesn't quite fit no matter where we put it, and task-wise, it's pretty isolated (it's the only thing that brings you to a separate screen other than the "More Options" button). So, I figured I would toss up this suggestion, and float the idea, and if people hate it that will tell us something. :)

The proposal, to be clear: remove the "Check spelling" checkbox from the inline commenting form, NOT from the full form that shows up when you hit "More Options", to give us room to redesign the inline commenting form in some more radical (and radically useful!) ways. At the time the inline comment form was designed, browser-based spellcheck was not as good as it is now, and people felt that having to visit the More Options page to spellcheck was really inconvenient, but these days I think it's at the point where browser-based spellcheck is so much better that I think it would be less of a concern now.

I could be entirely wrong, mind you! Hence running it by suggestions to see what people's quick gut reaction is.

Poll #11699 Discuss removing "check spelling" from quick-reply commenting form

Open to: Registered Users, detailed results viewable to: All, participants: 87

View Respondents

This suggestion:

View Answers

Should be implemented as-is.
66 (75.9%)

Should be implemented with changes. (please comment)
0 (0.0%)

Shouldn't be implemented.
2 (2.3%)

(I have no opinion)
19 (21.8%)

(Other: please comment)
0 (0.0%)

Comments

[pseudomonas]

For me, spell-check is a browser feature; my browser knows that I want my spelling checked in British English and has useful things (like my friends' names) whitelisted. Do we have any stats on the proportion of quick-comments that request spellchecks?

[denise]

We do not; we're kind of limited in workflow stats like that, and would have to build some special logging in to capture that.

[meridian_rose]

Same for me, I use my browser based British English spellchecker.
I'd be happy for the "check spelling" to appear in the 'more options' section.

[swaldman]

I also see spellchecking as a browser thing now. I don't expect DW to know my custom dictionary, or even necessarily which variant of English.

I'm not sure I have an opinion on whether it's OK to make it harder for others to do on the site, though, since I don't know how many use it.

[denise]

Yeah, I know better than to think dw_suggestions commenters are the only sets of opinions on the site, but I did at least want to get a cross-section of opinions!

...I should go xpost this to dw_accessibility, actually.

[kyrielle]

Seriously, my browser can't resist spell-checking what I type as I type it. I never use the spell-checking (sorry, my browser dislikes spellchecking...) in the form, and back when browser spell-check wasn't a thing, I STILL almost never used it because the extra page was annoying...and that was in a day/age when an extra page was "reasonable workflow" which it really, IMO, is not now.

I don't mind having it there if it fits (I can ignore it, after all!), but I see no reason to keep it.

(I also find it weird that it's a check box and then you have to pick something else to go forward, vs a button to check your spelling, but maybe that's just me.)

[denise]

It's not just you, but that is the compromise from the fierce arguments of 2004 or so and it never got revisited :)

(Working on DW is sometimes a spelunk through LJ development history. Someone will ask "why is it that way?" and Mark and I have to put our heads together and pick the brains of a few of our other contributors who were in LJ volunteering or development for ages and ages to try to remember! Usually we will remember there was a good reason for something, but not what that good reason was...

[musyc]

I don't think I've ever used the spellcheck on DW, but I know that on LJ, it used to drive me quite batty. (For one, LJ was "misspelled". C'mon now.) Before I got frustrated enough to stop using it entirely, it never registered apostrophes as integral parts of words, so things like "won't" and "can't" showed up in the spellcheck as wrong.

With browser-side spellchecks, I think a quick-reply version is unnecessary.

[denise]

We did fix the apostrophe thing -- it was one of the first things we did, actually. (And I won't bore you with details of how annoying it was to fix, heh.)

But yeah, it's super hard for us to update the dictionary with more words and stuff -- we started out with best intentions of keeping it regularly updated, but ugh, the process is so damn annoying.

[melannen]

+1 - I never found the LJ-based spellcheck very useful, even before I had a browser-based one. DW's is better, but having to scroll back and forth to fix the misspelled words is still annoying (especially on longer comments, where it would be most useful), and there are enough common things (like LJ and DW, still. And spellcheck!) that trigger it that it's not really worth it.

[montuos]

I'm putting "no opinion" because I'm an arrogant snot who turns spellcheck off wherever I find it, but I don't feel right making that call for anyone who does use it.

[denise]

YOU AND ME BOTH, which is why I'm polling around :)

[fujicori]

+1; I'll be unaffected, but I'd like to hear from people who actually use the site spellcheck.

[syntheid]

+1; I don't think I've ever used DW's spellcheck? Or the browser much, though I'm too lazy to turn that one off or anything.

[turlough]

Yeah, me too. (Seriously, spellcheckers are so irritating! If I'm uncertain how a word is spelled I'm perfectly capable of looking it up on my own. I don't need some annoying know-it-all spellchecker to second-guess my writing. *grumble* *grumble* *grumble*)

[arethinn]

This!

[sharpiefan]

I'm used to having my spellings checked in my browser as I type. And as I also use British spellings, I have no need or requirement to use a separate 'check spelling' option, as most websites seem to default to American spellings.

I think that it doesn't look out of place in the current position in the in-line reply box, and it's probably useful there for those who do use it. But I'm not one of them, so I have no problem with you removing it from the in-line reply box and leaving it under More Options.

[chagrined]

I guess I'm a minority who ~does~ use the DW spellcheck, but that's when I type up an entry/comment in an external text editor (without a spellcheck) and then paste it into DW, and it's easier to skim the misspelled words when the DW spellcheck pulls them out for me than it is to skim my wall of text looking for squiggly red underlines. I use this more often for entries than comments, but still sometimes for comments (usually when typing up some super-long comment I paste in). But when I do use it for comments that way, my comment-posting workflow generally ends up being [paste it in] > [preview comment first] > [THEN spellcheck] anyway, b/c generally those long comments feature a lot of html and I want to make sure it's not borked. So when I do press the spellcheck it's from the "more options" page in most cases. LONG STORY SHORT, it's possible this might impact me slightly (maybe once in a lonnnng while I'd have one extra click if I wanted to spellcheck w/o previewing first) but prolly not enough / not often enough to curr v much.

[axiom_of_stripe]

My process: I do use the DW spell-check sometimes, but when I'm doing something substantial enough that I care about spell-checking I usually want the stable "feel" of the reply page as opposed to the quick-reply box anyway.

[zing_och]

I do use the spell check regularly because my browser knows I'm German, but not that I'm typing in English at the moment. I voted "implement as is" though because I can live with spell check being available through "more options" if that makes other cool things easier.

[matgb]

As part of redesign, better login options for not-logged-in users, especially OpenID users, is soemthign I've wanted for ages but probably never filed anywhere. As well as some clearer "you are not logged in" info for those that forget to check, etc.

But I'm another for letting browsers do it and having it in more options, although I think my spellcheck is turned off currently.

[arethinn]

I never use it anyway.

For the love of $DEITY leave in the "Preview" function, though.

[outstretched]

While I do use the spellcheck, I only use it after I've gone to the "preview" page first so I can do a first proofread myself, so removing it from the quick-reply commenting box would be no problem with me.

And that thing you are working on sounds amazing omg omg omg /grabby hands. So even if I did use spell check more than that, I think I would gladly sacrifice it if it meant getting the ability to log in as other users and pick icons. Just my two cents!

[qem_chibati]

I've only ever used the DW spellcheck from the more options page, and I prefer my browsers spellchecker.

[solitarywalker]

When I hit reply I get a new window, so I'm guessing I don't use the inline thing you are talking about.

But I'm curious... if you remove the check spelling checkbox, does that mean it will always check spelling and you can't turn it off, or it will never check spelling and you can't turn it on? Or will the default action be user-configurable someplace?

[denise]

No, it just means that you'll have to load a separate page to spellcheck.

[azurelunatic]

Which is already the case since quick reply does not work on their system. So the impact for someone who already does not use quick reply would be zero change.