Add the Display Name to the comment header

[ceesoo]

Title:
Add the Display Name to the comment header

Area:
comment pages

Summary:
There's been a lot of debate over using the username vs. the display name on icons' alt-text+hover-over tool-tip and the accessibility/usability issues that come with changing it from username to display name. This solution is a good compromise on the issue, since it puts the display name somewhere accessible to everyone: after the username in the comment header.

ETA: Also check out the comments for other ideas for implementation not covered by the suggestion. Here's the most promising one.
ALSO also, as a warning: having a display name somewhere useable is a topic people have strong feelings on. Try to be considerate in the discussions, whatever implementation you do or don't support.

ETA 2: A list of solutions proposed so far including some pros and cons of each. If you'd still like to vote, click "implement as-is" for the idea in the description below, and click "implement with changes" if you like something else on the list and comment to the main post to say which (or to the comment linked above if you like the inline reply idea).

Description:

I'd like the Comment Headers to show a user's chosen display name next to their username.

SOME BACKGROUND INFO ABOUT PAST SUGGESTIONS AND ITS ACCESSIBILITY
While many users are used to having the display name before the keywords in the hover-over tool-tip** on LJ and IJ, over here it shows the username instead. As much as I'd love replacing the username with the display name in the tool-tip, I have to concede it's a problem for screenreaders given the length of display names (which is 50 characters max. I checked). And we can't apply such a change to only the visual user's side of things because it's bad practice for different sets of information to be available to different groups of users when we're all looking at the same page.

In previously proposed ideas ( http://dw-suggestions.dreamwidth.org/609311.html ), screen readers would see something like this when reading a comment:
---------------------------------------
[Icon] This is a display name that is 50 characters long.: Description of the icon which can be fairly lengthy (Keywords which may also be fairly lengthy)
And then it reads the subject if you put one.
[Userhead] [Personal Profile] usernameis25charactersmax
date-time etc.
---------------------------------------
That first line is all one alt-text*, so I imagine the screenreader can't skip straight to the description easily, meaning people using screenreaders would have to listen to the display name every time they want to hear what the icon is of (or try to guess how many words it is to skip the display name). And while I imagine most users aren't making their display names 50 characters long, it could still get confusing when read right next to the icon description. Screenreaders would also have to skip down two lines before they'd even hear the username that all this info is associated with.


It'd be better to use something like this!

=====HOW VISUAL BROWSERS WILL SEE IT=====
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd290/ceesoo/SabraLaTau/layouts/displayname02.png
with the hover-over tool-tip reading "username: Keywords which may also be fairly lengthy (Description of the icon which can be fairly lengthy)"

=====HOW SCREENREADERS WILL SEE IT=====
[Icon] usernameis25charactersmax: Description of the icon which can be fairly lengthy (Keywords which may also be fairly lengthy)
And then it reads the subject if you put one.
[Userhead] [Personal Profile] usernameis25charactersmax (This is a display name that is 50 characters long.)
date-time etc.
---------------------------------------
This way, if they don't want to hear the username over and over I imagine it's easier to skip one word than a long name or phrase, but they can also get at the display name easily just like visual users can by skipping down to the username and display name line. Meanwhile, people on mobile devices or who just can't use hover-over for whatever reason are also able to see the display name because it doesn't require any hovering.

In terms of visual space in the comment header, I don't think 50 characters is too many, as a maximum. And anything that a user didn't fill out would simply not show up. If a user doesn't designate a display name, it'd be best not to show anything in the comment header.



TERMS
* alt-text: what screen readers hear when reading past an icon
** tool-tip/title text: that thing that shows visual users our keywords. DW has it set to contain the same info as the alt-text except in a different order, in an effort to ensure all users have an equivalent experience using the site.

SOME CONNECTED DISCUSSIONS
1) http://dw-accessibility.dreamwidth.org/18357.html
2) http://dw-suggestions.dreamwidth.org/609311.html
3) http://dw-maintenance.dreamwidth.org/44980.html?thread=1361844#cmt1361844
4) http://dw-news.dreamwidth.org/32824.html?thread=4544056#cmt4544056

Poll #9974 Add the Display Name to the comment header

Open to: Registered Users, detailed results viewable to: All, participants: 129

View Respondents

This suggestion:

View Answers

Should be implemented as-is.
76 (58.9%)

Should be implemented with changes. (please comment)
14 (10.9%)

Shouldn't be implemented.
17 (13.2%)

(I have no opinion)
20 (15.5%)

(Other: please comment)
2 (1.6%)

Comments

Sample Image

[ceesoo]

Since it can't display in the post:

Why so adamant about Display Names?

[ceesoo]

SO I realized I didn't go into why I think we should have easy access to display names at all, so I'll talk about that a little here.

I think anyone who's clicked through the links is likely already aware that one of the loudest reasons is for RP purposes. We like to be able to see the name of the character we're actively interacting with. While it's true that we have the names in our notifs and profiles, you aren't always checking those when you're trying to thread.

But I also think that's pretty true for other conversations as well. For people who use it as a name, it's nice to have the identity you've chosen acknowledged by the people you're talking to. For the people who use it for entertaining quotes, now you don't have to link your profile to people if you want them to be entertained by it.

It's a place where you should be allowed to inject as much or as little information/personality as you want and show it off. That's why it's a "display" name.

[ratcreature]

I don't see the display names in the tool tip on LJ, no matter where I hover. I don't see it in the pop-up hovering over icons, nor over the little userhead. Where does it show there? I always see the username just like here on DW.

[ceesoo]

It should be when you hover over the icon. It'll say "My display name: a bunch of keywords" in a little gray box that shows up under the pointer, though perhaps it's different depending on the browser or how old the browser is?

[renovates]

I think Release 88, or something around that time, disabled the tooltip, which is different from the little pop up. It used to look like this (the little yellow box)

[karayan]

I feel like this is an excellent compromise that takes the feelings/issues present on both sides into consideration.

[inarticulate]

This suggestion is wonderful to me, as someone who uses the Name field for their name/alias and has wanted to have a space where that's available without clicking back to profile for ages.

[slakemoths]

Accidentally voted with an RP journal, but god, how I want this for both my personal and my RP accounts.

[opusculus]

I like this compromise. I hate that display names don't actually display anywhere where commenting, both for philosophical and practical purposes. It's one of those things where the lack of it is a constant minor annoyance when threading with people.

[moextispicy]

(Same person, different account)

I want to expand on my feelings on this, especially on my philosophy, since it's a controversial topic.

My feeling basically comes down to either display names should be implemented properly, so that they actually display throughout the site, or they shouldn't exist at all, and moved to the style page and renamed journal title. The name "display name" displaying right at the top during account creation tells me that this will be a fairly important part of how a user's identity on the site will be created, and then it just...gets forgotten and marginalized and unused. I think it's important on a social site to give people a way to define their identity that isn't limited to the username because the username has so many other limits because it has to be the unique identifier for the whole site, and in the url, and you can never change it, and that is inherently limiting. I can't know how I'm going to define myself on a website before I've used it, and that's what usernames ask you to do. Display names theoretically give me the opportunity to modify that, but the fact that their implementation is so limited basically robs them of their full potential. If it's an option to define your identity on the site by something other than your username, then either implement it thoroughly enough that it works for that purpose, or don't offer the possibility at all. It really just bothers me any time I think about it.

I strongly philosophically feel that display names are something inherently unsuited to comment page styles, just because it's not the person who's journal is being commented on who's deciding whether it's an important part of their identity, it's the person who chose the display name. Practically, I'd be willing to accept it if customized comment pages actually were capable of displaying complicated discussions without getting illegible. Since they can't, no one I'm interesting in speaking with is ever going to turn them on, so it's an utterly useless solution for me.

[vangirl]

I think this is a wonderful suggestion. Both for RP purposes, as well as practical reasons. Knowing what names people prefer to go by is quite helpful, especially since not everyone can snag the username beth for instance.

[allen]

So I know that I may be atypical here, but a quick scan of my access list shows that this would mean that I'd see a lot of "From: allen (allen)", which isn't that terrible of a thing, but is kind of redundant. So I would probably vote against this being the default. Or at very least have a check in there to see if the display name matches the username, and only show the display name if they don't match.

...That having been said, this might be done better in styles than as a site-wide change. I don't think there's any reason you shouldn't be able to override Comment::print_poster() to display this information in your style. Heck, you could even have it display as "From: Display Name (allen)", which might be even better. Then set your user to view all pages as style=mine and display names will be visible everywhere (for you)!

I'm voting as yes with changes, since I realize that "override Comment::print_poster()" isn't really a trivial solution. So read my vote as a vote for "make it easier to make your style show users' display names."

[deborah]

+1

[deborah]

make this be something that can be added easily to a style, in the customize style page, and then people can add themselves.

The fact is there are large swathes of the community who don't use this in a way which would be at all useful, but there are large, mostly new swathes of the community who do have a history of using it. If we put "show the display name in the comment header" into the style configuration, then the role-playing community (and others who like the feature) would be able to turn this function on without adding journal noise for the people who don't use it.

[sorchasilver]

+1

I can see that this is useful for some people, but to me it just adds visual clutter to the comment, and is info I really don't care about most of the time.

[pocketmouse]

I think that for me it would make a lot of things cluttered and unreadable, but possibly, for people like RPGs that want it, just a CSS code that can be added to a journal/comm's layout so that it can be visible in just that journal/comm?

[susanreads]

I think this would be good as an option. Putting in your style doesn't help if you want to see it in site-scheme comment pages, but evidently some people find it to be too much info.

[ex_mrs260625]

If this were implemented, I would probably change my display name to avoid redundancy, but I wouldn't change it to something I wanted to be called. (I don't have a nickname, and I am trying to cut down on my Real Name presence on the internet because I want to change careers. My username may be an awkward handle, but it's close enough for people who don't know me.)

So the intended use here wouldn't work for me -- it wouldn't give people any more info about what I wanted to be called. (Except, perhaps, that I'm fine with being referred to by my username.)

NEW THOUGHT

[ceesoo]

I and many many people (at least a couple thousand or so) really really really really want the display name somewhere visible while we're threading. But there's issues of too much information being a barrier for new or casual users and whether to make it opt-in or default or some people just don't want to see display names on the comment headers because they don't use them and would consider it clutter...

SO HOW ABOUT THIS? Put the display name on the reply form. We can see a person's display name at the top when we open the reply-to link in a new tab, but the point is to have it in front of us while we're actively threading (so having access to it without having to open a new page).
Here's how it might be arranged:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Replying to: their_username (Display Name, which may be long or short)

From: my_username         Icon to use: (default) [Random icon] [Quote]
Subject: [______________________________]
Message:




[Post Comment] [Preview] [More Options] [] Check Spelling
Notice: This account is set to log the IP addresses of everyone who comments.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I'd put a break after the "replying to:" line just so the form doesn't feel any more crowded than it is.

Re: NEW THOUGHT

[ceesoo]

I'd like to point out that users without accounts who reply anonymously are automatically taken to the reply-to page, so an addition like this will also not interfere with how people who don't have accounts yet are browsing or interacting with the site because they don't see the menu that appears when registered users click the "Reply to this" link.

[perrito]

I would love to see this implemented in some way. I actually really like the original idea.

[mitbix]

+1ing this suggestion and making it optional, which I think would appease both sides since people who want the feature can have what they want, and people worried about visual clutter can turn it off. I don't agree with just making it something to add to styles because I, personally, want this feature but have never liked customised comment pages and prefer using the site scheme.

[unicorn]

I voted for this to be implemented, but I would also vote for "implemented with changes" and find the idea here very promising. I would want this in the inline comment box, however. I almost never use the reply link because the way it takes you to the #comments page after replying is a timewaster for me.

[unicorn]

And since I personally prefer the hoverover-on-username idea (which has accessibility issues but would allow someone casually reading down a page without commenting to see this), I think it might be best to implement both that and the inline comment format display, so the information can be seen by as many people who want it as possible.

[autorejoin]

I just have one question: What's the point of having a display name option if it's never used anywhere outside of the profile?

EDIT: Which is to say, I very much think that they ought to be used somehow, and don't understand why they're there if it's not used anywhere else outside of notifs, somewhere it's easily accessible.

[ninetydegrees]

What's the point of having a display name option if it's never used anywhere outside of the profile?

It's also used as one's journal main title if you haven't entered one at Customize, which is why some people use it to enter a sort of nickname/alias/title (like 'The Queen of Cupcakes'), a quote, a sentence, symbols such as ♥ and other fancier stuff. It's also used in your profile module.

[godfatherly]

I have two paid accounts, and have maintained two paid accounts for a while. I'd like to see this implemented OR hover-over-display-the-name.

A list of various solutions that have been proposed for showing the display name so far.

[ceesoo]

Same list as the comment under the same subject up at the top of the post. Reposted for easier reading/discussion summarying!

Just so we're clear from the start this time, I'm writing this from the standpoint of not making any changes to the Manage Settings page beyond what is already there. That means none of these proposals are optional unless that is already built in to the mechanism that the display name gets attached to. This is true even for the original suggestion up in the main post.

These are arranged about as chronologically as I'm aware of. I've hopefully listed the main pros and cons for each idea but if something really stands out to any readers as an important point that was missed, feel free to reply. (Try to list it in the subject line and go into detail in the comment so it's easier to navigate from the main comment page)


== 1 == Replace username with display name in the hover-over tooltip that currently shows "username: Keywords, Comments (Description)" when you mouse over someone's icon. ("Comments" struck out because those will be removed from the tool-tip and alt text soon)

Points of consideration
++ It's how LJ and IJ still show the display name.
-- The tool-tip is already overcrowded. With display names being 50 characters max, the info starts becoming difficult to browse.
-- May seem intimidating to new or unregistered users if the display is crowded.
-- Accessibility: screenreaders get the information in a slightly different order than we do and display name is less useful to them (see 1st cut on main post for details).
-- Usability: not everyone uses or knows the tool-tip is there. Mobile browsers and mobility-impaired users who might use automatic clickers have no way of accessing whatever is put there.
-- High-impact solution for a majority of users.

Personal thoughts
After examining how screenreaders would process the info if we were to change it, I don't think this is a good implementation because it appreciably hinders the experience of users who need screenreaders to browse the site.

== 2 == Replace username or add the display name under the username in the contextual popup menu.

Points of consideration
++ Medium-impact implementation for majority of users.
++ Plenty of space to add a display name in there.
++ For those who can see it, it saves them the extra step of navigating to a different page while browsing in order to find the display name (registered and non-registered users alike).
++ People can turn off the contextual popup if they don't want to use it, while the default is that it will show on mouse-over.
-- Inaccessible to screenreaders. Mobile browsers and people who use auto-clickers can't mouse-over to bring up the menu either.

Personal thoughts
One of my favorite ideas and actually one that was proposed in the comments of the first display names discussion brought up on dw_suggestions and again a few other places. It would operate essentially the same as the tool-tips on LJ and IJ do and satisfies people's need to turn it off if they don't like it, since that's already an option that DW lets you choose. The only drawback is that it's completely inaccessible to anyone using a screenreader or mobile device.

== 3 == Put our name into the Description of our icons.

Points of consideration
++ Very low-impact to majority of users.
++ Visible to registered and unregistered users
++ Doesn't require any new modifications to the site to use.
-- Copy-pasting a name countless times to get the same info consistent across all comments.
-- Too much work for potentially confusing pay off.
-- Only applicable to a specific use case and very unfriendly for general use throughout the site.

Personal thoughts
The description field is more properly used for describing the icons. This solution might make sense for an RP journal where the character is featured in the icons anyway so it isn't confusing to put their name there, but it's no good for personal journals where what is in the icon often has little to do with the name-identity of the user. And to reiterate, too much work for something that is better used for it's intended purpose.

== 4 == Add the display name to a new tool-tip that shows when you hover over the username.

Points of consideration
++ Uses a familiar way of checking a display name (mousing-over), just moving it to a different place.
++ Available to registered and unregistered users.
++ Low-impact implementation for majority of users
-- Again, not accessible to people who can't mouse-over something or who use screenreaders
-- A Notes system is being developed which may use tool-tips on usernames, which will conflict if it's already used for display names.

Personal thoughts
Not particularly invested in this solution, but it would certainly be doing what I want the site to give me when interacting regularly with the comment pages.

== 5 == Add the display name in the comment header.

Points of consideration
++ Makes sure display name is always connected to other unique info
++ Accessible to screenreaders, mobile devices, and normal major browsers.
++ Can be seen without additional actions by both registered and unregistered users.
-- High-impact implementation for majority of users.
-- Visual noise
-- Would frustrate users who don't bother with display names as there is currently no way to make it optional other than not to enter a display name.

Personal thoughts
I would consider this proposal the most accessible and the best way to connect icon, keywords, username, and display name all together for visual and non-visual users. However I concede it does add more visual noise to the comment header that people may be bothered by and may subconsciously lower engagement of new users scanning through a comment page.

== 6 == Make a journal style that includes display names on the header in custom comment pages.

Points of consideration
++ Guaranteed to be an opt-in implementation, which is good for the majority who don't use display names.
++ Low-impact solution for majority of users.
-- Is an opt-in implementation, it won't be used consistently throughout the site.
-- Gives control of showing display names on comment pages to the journal owner by default rather than the person commenting to whom the display name belongs.
-- Currently, comment pages and journal pages don't have separate styles, and custom comment pages get too unwieldy to use for the group of users who most consistently set a display name.
-- Requires extra engagement from a new user if they want to set it up.
-- Would also limit style options as things currently are.

Personal thoughts
While it might work out fine for a specific set of users, it's not really an idea that I feel like solves the problem for the website as a whole. Although the majority of users don't bother with a display name and not everyone uses the site the same way, I think it's good for the site to encourage more consistent use of the display name, as that's one of the first things people encounter in account creation. Whatever implementation is picked, I would prefer it to be site-wide so that it is less limiting on people who want to use it.

== 7 == Add the username and display name to the top of the inline reply box, which is what shows up when registered users click on the reply link below each comment.

Points of consideration
++ High exposure but low-impact to majority of users.
++ Unifies presentation across inline replying (which happens on the comment page) and replying by opening a new reply-to page.
++ Doesn't require mouse-over actions so it can be seen by screenreaders, mobile devices, and normal browsers.
++ Doesn't affect the usage of unregistered users if implemented alone.
-- Not something you can turn on or off
-- Unregistered users are still sent to a different page if they want to find the display name.

Personal thoughts
My second favorite idea because it still accounts for accessibility which out of the other options only the comment header idea is really also easy and accessible from the user end. It would be best to use this in conjunction with one of the hover-over ideas.

5

[blue_rampion]

As a variant on 5, harukami mocked up this version over in this thread:



I'm not sure what it'd look like with everything filled in (I don't have access to an image editor atm), but it does seem less cluttered to me.

[soundtrack]

Regarding this thread, options 2 and 7 are both ideas that I could get behind. I personally don't use the pop-up at the moment, but I would be willing to turn it on if it would mean I could see people's display names. As for 7, it's great for me because I use DW on my phone a lot.