Allow permalinks to comments with added context

[sophie]

Title:
Allow permalinks to comments with added context

Area:
Commenting

Summary:
When linking to a comment, there are currently two ways of doing it - either linking directly to the comment itself, or linking to a parent or grandparent. The latter approach has problems though because it also shows other sibling comments which may not be relevant. I propose adding a new mode which shows the linked comment and several parent comments, with no siblings.

Description:
Right now, it's impossible to link to a particular comment with context without including other sibling comments in the output too, and if the comment you want to link to is further down the page, it's not easy to point attention to that comment specifically.

As well as being a Dreamwidth user, I'm also a user of Reddit, which also has threaded commenting. The way they solve this is by allowing the display of a number of levels above the linked comment, and highlighting the linked comment in particular. For example, http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/p6gza/im_dr_norman_rosenthal_psychiatrist_author_and/c3mwork?context=3 links to a comment of mine (Sophira) with two levels of parent comments, without any siblings. (The link would normally specify three levels, but as it happens there aren't three levels above mine.)

Reddit's implementation doesn't look accessible - it only distinguishes the linked comment by colour, and with a very subtle shade at that - so if we implemented this it would be necessary to make it more accessible, both by added text and by a more obvious shade of colour.

One problem with this is that I'm not sure how easy it would be to incorporate this into existing styles. It would be nice to try, though.

(Edit: In the comments, I've posted an example showing exactly what I mean.)

Poll #9489 Allow permalinks to comments with added context

Open to: Registered Users, detailed results viewable to: All, participants: 43

View Respondents

This suggestion:

View Answers

Should be implemented as-is.
9 (20.9%)

Should be implemented with changes. (please comment)
4 (9.3%)

Shouldn't be implemented.
4 (9.3%)

(I have no opinion)
26 (60.5%)

(Other: please comment)
0 (0.0%)

Comments

[axiom_of_stripe]

I would want some way to make it clear that there are sibling comments even if they aren't shown.

As for how to indicate which comment was the linked one, if the parent comment(s) were loaded on the page but the anchor link pointed to the comment of interest, that should make it clear. (That might make it clear even if the sibling comments were showing as usual, although it would be harder to skim up to the parent that way.) The pointer to the particular comment would be lost when the reader scrolled up or down, though (unless they refresh the page again).

[kyrielle]

I think it'd be nice if it displayed the sibling comments collapsed - that way the standard "expand" could be used to view them, but it'd be immediately obvious they were not the main context.

I wouldn't rely on the anchor link. Some browsers are inconsistent about actually going to the anchor link, depending on how the page loads, the browser works, etc. And if the comment is small and would be at the bottom of the page....

It should be the anchor link, of course, but some other indicator would also be useful.

[yvi]

Right now, it's impossible to link to a particular comment with context without including other sibling comments in the output too, and if the comment you want to link to is further down the page, it's not easy to point attention to that comment specifically.

Half of that (including context and linkingto the specific comment) is possible if you do it by hand, like I did with this link because all comments have anchors.

[turlough]

You know, this is the first time in the far too many years I've been using first LJ and then DW that I've realised that the hashtag in a comment link is an anchor. I suddenly feel very foolish :-)

[ninetydegrees]

I'd rather have the comment you linked to highlighted in some way than replies to this comment hidden and a second permalink.

[sophie]

I'm not suggesting that replies to the linked comment should be hidden at all. I'm saying that siblings (and any siblings of parent comments) should be hidden in this contextual link.

As an example, let's say you have this structure of commenting:

• Comment 1
• Comment 1a
• Comment 1b
• Comment 1c
• Comment 1c1
• Comment 1c1a
• Comment 1c1b
• Comment 1c1c
• Comment 1c1c1
• Comment 1c1c2
• Comment 1c2
• Comment 1c3
• Comment 1d
• Comment 2

And let's say you wanted to link to comment 1c1c. In the current view, you end up with something like this:

• Comment 1c1c
• Comment 1c1c1
• Comment 1c1c2

You don't get to see the parents. If you link to the parent instead, you get:

• Comment 1c1
• Comment 1c1a
• Comment 1c1b
• Comment 1c1c
• Comment 1c1c1
• Comment 1c1c2

In this case comment 1c1c is buried in the thread below 1c1a and 1c1b, and it's difficult to point to without modifying the URL (such as in yvi's comment above).

In this proposed contextual view, I'm suggesting something like this:

• Comment 1
• Comment 1c
• Comment 1c1
• Comment 1c1c
• Comment 1c1c1
• Comment 1c1c2

So you get to see the parents *and* the replies, and comment 1c1c is highlighted to make it clear that it's the comment being referred to.

Hopefully that helps to illustrate what I mean!

[ninetydegrees]

Thanks for the explanation.

How is that different from the 'parent', 'thread' and 'thread from start' links, though?

Edit: nevermind. I finally got it.

[sophie]

For others who have the same question: The answer is that only the direct ascendents of the comment are shown: Comment 1, comment 1c, and comment 1c1. It hides the other comments, such as comment 1b, and it also hides the siblings such as comment 1c1b.

[deborah]

This is a behavior I have wondered for some time, although I agree with people that some clear indicator that there are collapsed siblings would be useful.

[deborah]

Argh my paid account is expired so I can't edit. s/wondered/wanted/

/me wanders over to check book to stick check in mail

[denise]

:P

[musyc]

This sort of linking behavior actually irritates me. When there's a clear "parent" or "thread from start" link as there is on DW, I want to go straight to the comment being linked, without a whole row of who knows how many parents having to load. I can see how this would be useful to people who come from blog/discussion sites where that's the norm, but it's always bothered me. I tend to use sites/read comments and thread less often if it's showing me a bunch of parent comments instead of the *one* that I want to read.

[azurelunatic]

Agreed; as an option I can take this, but if someone proposed it as the default I would get cranky.

[sophie]

I wasn't proposing it as a default.

I was, however, thinking that it would be another option for linking which people could copy and paste (such as in the Reddit example above), which makes it problematic if people did that when you didn't want it. OTOH, it seems a bit too much to have as a viewer-side option for *all* comment links.

[susanreads]

I'd rather see the siblings collapsed, so you know you're not looking at the first response to the parent. Thread from start + collapse everything not in the direct line + some sort of highlighting of the linked comment.

[marahmarie]

I really like the implementation you linked to on Reddit because it says "you are viewing a single comment's thread" at the top in a big colored box you can't really miss, then shows that single thread with the relevant comment highlighted quite well. I'm definitely in favor of finer-grained control like this so people don't wonder exactly which comment is being pointed out on such threads.

[montuos]

This is a feature I have wanted forever!!! Sometimes the relevant comment you want to pass along just doesn't make enough sense without its antecedents, but frequently those are simply lost in a deluge and there's no easy way to filter out the other stuff.

For those who want the rest of the comments to be available, does the

"you are viewing a single comment's thread.
view the rest of the comments →"

label in the linked reddit example satisfy your need to know there are more related comments and access them?

[cesy]

I have no objection to this existing as an option to hand-code, but I'd rather not add another link to the existing "link" "reply" "thread" "parent" which already leaves me confused trying to remember the difference between "link" and "thread".

[sophie]

As far as I know, there is no difference.