Support non Gregorian calendar formats across Dreamwidth

[twisted_times]

Title:
Support non Gregorian calendar formats across Dreamwidth

Area:
Posting, commenting, profile dates

Summary:
Some users may want to see date formats displayed in calendar formats other than the Gregorian Calendar

Description:
This isn't really one I actually want myself, but I can see the utility of it for other users who are more used to, or use in tandem, calendar formats other than the Gregorian Calendar - e.g. Hebrew, Islamic, Chinese, Japanese, Coptic.


Code already exists in both Perl and PHP for converting between different calendar formats, so the conversion probably won't be problem so much as its implementation throughout the code.


I suppose the main issue is how much demand there would be for this functionality from the userbase.

Poll #5108 Support non Gregorian calendar formats across Dreamwidth

Open to: Registered Users, detailed results viewable to: All, participants: 58

View Respondents

This suggestion:

View Answers

Should be implemented as-is.
30 (51.7%)

Should be implemented with changes. (please comment)
2 (3.4%)

Shouldn't be implemented.
3 (5.2%)

(I have no opinion)
22 (37.9%)

(Other: please comment)
1 (1.7%)

Comments

[pauamma]

I wouldn't include the Hijri(*) calendar system in this, because it's an observational calendar, not a computational calendar.

Other than that, I have no opinion on whether it should be implemented.

(*) I assume that's what you mean by "Islamic calendar". If you meant something else, please elaborate.

[twisted_times]

Good point well made - I thought it was one that could be calculated like the Hebrew Calendar, so I've learnt something new today. :)

[pauamma]

It can be estimated for a given location, but those estimates can be off by 1 day, and may not hold for other locations. (For more information, search for "International Lunar Date Line".)

[starwatcher]

.
I like the idea, but I'd like to see both calendars displayed. Without being able to cross-reference, those who don't know the alternate calendars may misunderstand a key piece of information.
.

[twisted_times]

That's an extremely good idea. I did consider that, but thought I might put it up as a second suggestion, but it's probably worth wrapping up into this one. :)

[azurelunatic]

Journal owner calendar and viewer calendar if different, or system calendar too if all three are different?

[twisted_times]

Good question; I'd say that Gregorian would be the default on all journals and communities, you own chosen second calendar would be displayed in your own personal journal/community and the chosen additional (if any) would be displayed in 3rd party journals or communities.

E.g. You have the Hebrew Calendar displayed in your own journal along with eh Gregorian. You go to look at a friend's posts and they have dates in both Gregorian and Chinese displayed in their own journal; if you read those posts on your reading page, I'd say that the datestamp is displayed in Gregorian and Hebrew, not Gregorian and Chinese.

[azurelunatic]

That does sound like a scenario that could lead to potential loss of context, if you're vaguely familiar with your friend's calendar but it's not your personal calendar of choice, and they make an allusion to something that would be obvious if you saw their calendar...

It's not a big thing, but I could see assorted small bafflements.

[twisted_times]

Perhaps but it follows consistently what DW already does with Gregorian format timestamps - on your reading page all dates and times for posts are parsed in your local time zone, whereas on other people's journals or in communities, dates and times are listed according to what the poster's or commenter's local time zone is.

[twisted_times]

Hmm, actually having just checked, Gregorian timestamps are listed in your own local timeframe even in other peoples' community comments or other peoples' journals. D'oh! ><

However, hovering over a date/time listing gives the commenter's own local time stamp as well - never noticed that before. :)

[matgb]

I have your previous comment open to suggest using the hover text actually.

Your reading page should display your time. But the hover text (not currently there in TR, not sure about other layouts) could show local time, which should be whatever 'local time' is to the poster, regardless of calender.

When reading an entry on their page, in their layout, it should show using their preference, but the hover text should also have a conversion to your timezone/format preferences.

I don't think we should enforce gregorian standards on every user and force them to display it, I know a bunch of people writing English language blogs/journals but based in countries that use other time formats. It should be a user display preference for their layout, givent hat can always be overriden by style=mine or style=site, if it's also included in the hover, it should resolve it easily for all.

[twisted_times]

I don't think we should enforce gregorian standards on every user and force them to display it

Nor do I, but it is the understandable default date/time format for Dreamwidth at the moment. I was also about to suggest a button or link to switch viewing of a journal/community to your own style, but it's already there and I just hadn't needed it yet to know that it already existed. :D

[pseudomonas]

I guess I don't mind this being implemented only if:
a) the default is Gregorian, the de facto standard
b) no-one who hasn't actively opted in (including logged-out users) is expected to interpret a date in another format (so all dates not in Gregorian or the viewer's preference is given additionally in Gregorian). It should definitely be a choice made by the viewer as to what date system they find most informative, not by the poster.
c) reading lists and style=mine pages don't inflict dual dates on users who don't want them.

But given that DW has decided that it's not going to run interfaces in multiple languages, I don't see using multiple calendar systems as being that useful for internationalisation, and it risks reducing comprehensibility and adding clutter unless done right. Also, having different people seeing different things on a journal page or comment thread is rarely too helpful.

[pseudomonas]

Note that (at least for Hebrew dates) the implementation would have to be latitude/longitude aware as the day changes at local sunset, not at midnight. The Perl module doesn't do that at the moment, AFAICT.

[twisted_times]

Note that (at least for Hebrew dates) the implementation would have to be latitude/longitude aware as the day changes at local sunset, not at midnight.

Which begs me to ask the related question of how do you calculate Hebrew calendar dates if you're beyond the Arctic/Antarctic Circles?

[hatam_soferet]

For everyday ritual purposes, you take the times as used by the nearest established Jewish community. For something important like a divorce or a wedding, you would jolly well go to a place where the date was actually definable.

[twisted_times]

Thank you - my curiosity is sated for the moment. :)

[hatam_soferet]

Some notable rabbi whose name I forget was once asked what Jews living above the Circles should do, and his response was "That's no place for a Jew to live" - an interesting philosophical statement: if you can't define a calendar, it's not a place for people to live...

[twisted_times]

Tell that to the Icelanders and Inuit people; the latter have been living there for at least 19,000 years...

[hatam_soferet]

Well yes, duh, and one would imagine they don't have the same philosophy. I just meant it was interesting, that's all.

[twisted_times]

I know it's interesting; I think most Rabbis would tend to be a bit more pragmatic in their answers to such questions. :)