Let people create reading lists before signing up

[feathertail]

Title:
Let people create reading lists before signing up

Area:
OpenID

Summary:
Reading lists are awesome, and so is having more readers / discussion on Dreamwidth. Let's give people a "free sample" cookie that lets them create their own reading list, to encourage them to sign up for an OpenID account. Then let's make the process of doing so -- and of converting that into a paying account -- easier.

Description:
As Dreamwidth's reading list gains features and usability (and its "memories" archive begins to encompass social bookmarking features), it's going to get more and more desirable. People could start to spend their whole web surfing sessions on Dreamwidth. So let's make it a selling point, and give out a free trial: Let's allow people to create their own reading lists before they've even signed up.

Imagine a Dreamwidth front page that has a big shiny button on it, something like "Start Reading Now!" or "Create Your Own Reading List!" Clicking on it could place a cookie with a list of everything that the person subscribes to (they probably couldn't join comms this way). You could leave the site and come back to it, and because the data's stored locally you'd still have your reading list intact. But until you actually signed up, there'd be a reminder that you need to do so. The navbar might be double-height, for instance, with a bright red section to remind people.

When you click on it, it'd take you to a VERY simplified sign-up sheet. Instead of asking for your "OpenID URL," it'd say something like "Enter the URL of your blog / journal / homepage!" with an example like "USERNAME.website.com". A quick blurb like "Verified using OpenID" could be there to let techies know what they're looking at, maybe with a link to click on so the curious could learn more.

If the person enters a URL that doesn't work, only then would it attempt to explain, and it'd portray this as a problem with the other site: "Either you didn't enter the URL correctly (try copying-and-pasting from your browser's address bar), or that site doesn't support OpenID authentication." It could briefly explain that "OpenID lets you use your account from one website to log in on others, including this one. Many websites support OpenID, including (brief optional list). Try another?"

Admittedly, this is not the ideal way to introduce people to this, but it seems the least error-prone for a world in which 1) Most people don't know what OpenID is, and 2) Most websites don't support OpenID.

One way we could possibly help people to get around it is to let them create a limited Dreamwidth account, if their first choice doesn't work. These could be a level of membership in which all you can do is comment and create reading lists. Alternately (or in addition to that), we could have a link to the full sign-up procedure. Newcomers to Dreamwidth might be more likely to jump through the hoops if they've already got some investment in the site, through finding feeds and/or journals they like.

Ideally, it would also be easy to "upgrade" your OpenID account, or link it to a full Dreamwidth account from either payment or invite code.

What do you think?

Poll #3193 Let people create reading lists before signing up

Open to: Registered Users, detailed results viewable to: All, participants: 43

View Respondents

This suggestion:

View Answers

Should be implemented as-is.
4 (9.3%)

Should be implemented with changes. (please comment)
3 (7.0%)

Shouldn't be implemented.
27 (62.8%)

(I have no opinion)
8 (18.6%)

(Other: please comment)
1 (2.3%)

Comments

[azurelunatic]

I know it's planned to be able to link OpenID and regular account.

[feathertail]

Okay, sorry.

[denise]

You don't need to apologize when people point things out! There are things in this suggestion I felt might be worth discussing -- it isn't at all a duplicate, since there's nothing planned exactly like this. Even if a suggestion isn't popular, sometimes useful things come out of the discussion.

[feathertail]

Okay. >.>

[ratcreature]

I find it annoying when a site I have not joined constantly reminds me that I should join, and when "JOIN JOIN JOIN" messages take up valuable screen estate where I want just want to read the public non-member content and use the non-member features in peace. It makes me less likely to join actually if a site is obnoxious about wanting me to join. So I'm against any large red sections or giant sign-up buttons and all that.

[feathertail]

Okay, sorry.

[instantramen]

It's actually really easy to get an OpenID if you don't already belong to a website that uses it: you can use a Google or Yahoo account, either of which is easily obtained. There's also no money required and a lot more functionality than the proposed cookie-based reading page (which doesn't do a potential user any good if they're creating the trial reading page on a computer that isn't theirs or if they simply don't accept/keep cookies), which makes this a little redundant.

[feathertail]

Okay, sorry.

[starwatcher]

.
Don't we already pretty much have this? I know I created a reading list with openID and used it for a few weeks before I got an account.
.

[feathertail]

Yes, sorry.

[cheyinka]

Just speaking for myself, if I went to a site, was able to create a reading list, and then had to do it again the next time I went, I would probably be too frustrated to return, even if I later got an invite code.

Also, someone who comes to the site without already having a list of people in mind to watch will probably just want to use the random user / random community / latest things link from the logged-out homepage, and might be confused by being asked to "make a reading list now", especially since those settings would only be saved in a cookie. And someone who gets directed to the site by a friend ("here's a link to my Dreamwidth journal") is likely to be able to ask for an invite code from that friend (or already has one from that friend.)

[feathertail]

You're right, sorry.

[holyschist]

While the bar is a bit lower than setting up OpenID, I know a lot of people who don't accept cookies, or only accept them on a case-by-case basis, or purge them regularly. Also, I suspect there's an even larger group of people who would be confused that they can't view the reading list they set up at home on their work computer.

It's a nice idea, but I'm not sure its benefits would outweigh the drawbacks, and the OpenID reading list option is already in place.

[feathertail]

You're right, sorry.

[holyschist]

I don't think you need to apologize for making a suggestion!

[feathertail]

Okies, then.

[sheelal]

...I, ah, seem to have misread this suggestion as "let's make it a lot easier and less technical to log in with OpenID and set up an OpenID reading page", which I'm all for, because I still have readers on LJ that can't figure it out at all. I'm not sure I like this exact implementation as described, but... it seemed to be a step in the right idea, in the sense of making OpenID more usable for people unfamiliar with Dreamwidth.

[feathertail]

Yes ... the specific implementation I suggested wasn't the best idea, and there seem to be other issues besides. >.> Phrased the way that you put it, though, I think that it sounds good.

I also think that advertising the reading list as a feature could turn out to be viable, once we've improved it a bit and made Dreamwidth a great place to find things to read as well as just write.

[cesy]

When you click on it, it'd take you to a VERY simplified sign-up sheet. Instead of asking for your "OpenID URL," it'd say something like "Enter the URL of your blog / journal / homepage!" with an example like "USERNAME.website.com". A quick blurb like "Verified using OpenID" could be there to let techies know what they're looking at, maybe with a link to click on so the curious could learn more.

If the person enters a URL that doesn't work, only then would it attempt to explain, and it'd portray this as a problem with the other site: "Either you didn't enter the URL correctly (try copying-and-pasting from your browser's address bar), or that site doesn't support OpenID authentication." It could briefly explain that "OpenID lets you use your account from one website to log in on others, including this one. Many websites support OpenID, including (brief optional list). Try another?"

I like this idea, though I'm not so sure about the cookie-based reading list. I also don't think there's much value in the "limited Dreamwidth account idea" - anything that would actually be useful would also be too vulnerable to spam to work.

Making it easy to "upgrade" an OpenID account would be very useful, once the ability to link them comes in.

[feathertail]

I was trying to think of a way to get people who hadn't heard of Dreamwidth interested enough to sign up using their OpenIDs. >.>b It seems that the primary use case we're planning for is people who have, though, and I guess that may be the majority of people who come here.

I do think OpenID login should be a lot simpler to use, though. As it is, it requires people to know what OpenID is and know that they have one, on top of knowing why they would want to use it to begin with.

[sophie]

I was actually really surprised when I looked at the poll results and saw that most of the votes were for it not to be implemented, because there are bits to this that I really like. (And I think you shouldn't keep saying sorry - you haven't offended anybody or wasted anybody's time with this post!)

Personally I *really* like the idea of having a cookie-based reading list. I think it's a superb idea, and especially because there are lots of people who consider OpenID to be too difficult. I think that being able to just build up a reading list without ever going to create an account would be the perfect way to introduce interoperability, and I'm stunned that I seem to be in a minority here.

So I'm with you on this one on the cookie-based reading list. I don't think the 'trial account' would be a good idea, but definitely a way to convert the cookie-based list into a proper OpenID account should be fantastic. I also agree with the 'enter your blog URL' idea and the idea of explaining OpenID if it fails.

[feathertail]

I think the idea of a "free reading list" doesn't fit with most people's models of how Dreamwidth works. And to be fair, at the moment Dreamwidth is basically a private club, with multiple barriers of entry: An invite code, a desire to get an invite code, and a level of technical sophistication and/or patience sufficient to put up with an archaic (if not user-hostile) interface.

OpenID seems designed to mitigate the first two factors, but at the moment it's even more difficult, as it requires the user to both know what OpenID is and know if he or she has one. The only purpose it seems to serve right now is to allow even more technically proficient users coming from other sites to authenticate their comments.

There were some objections raised to the idea of using cookies, but it'd probably work for 90% of browsing situations. An explanation could be attached explaining its limitations (that it'd only work on that computer and only if your browser is set to accept cookies), and encouraging the user to sign up with an OpenID account ...

That'd still only help with the first two hurdles, though. I'm not sure Dreamwidth can get where it needs to be UX-wise without a major overhaul, and as its user base is (mostly) LiveJournal adepts it doesn't seem like there's much freedom to experiment. I hope the "named anonymous" commenting thing helps, though.

Sorry to ramble. >.> It's not like my ideas for solving things tend to be that good to begin with.