![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
brooksmoses) wrote in ![[site community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/comm_staff.png){kind=small}
dw_suggestions2010-04-20 08:07 pm
Allow non-paid users to get email copies of their comments?
Title:
Allow non-paid users to get email copies of their comments?
Area:
comments
Summary:
To encourage cross-site community, it should be as "frictionless" as possible to comment on DW. One of the barriers for (paid) LJ users is that, in order to get emailed copies of their own comments, they have to have a paid account on DW as well. This means that I can't ask people to only comment on my DW entries without notably inconveniencing several of my friends. I suggest that this particular feature be made available to all commenters, including OpenID accounts.
Description:
One of the goals of DW, as I understand it, is to foster online community -- and, in particular, to make it appealing for people outside of DW (e.g., people on LJ) to comment on posts on DW. In my opinion, this is critical for DW's usefulness to me; the comments that I get from my friends (and the conversations they have in comments) are a key part of the reason that I post.
There is one key reason that commenting on DW posts is unappealing to many of my LJ friends (and was unappealing to me before I got a paid DW account). On LJ, I am used to getting emailed copies of my own comments, which I use for archival purposes. On DW, one has to have a paid account in order to get these copies, even if one is logging in via OpenID from a paid LJ account. This is annoying, and a barrier to conversation; see, for instance, this post from a friend of mine: http://lcohen.livejournal.com/794820.html.
Furthermore, making commenting features paid-only is contrary to the idea of having interworking between sites; if there were a dozen LJ/DW/etc. sites that had thriving communities, a person would either have to (a) limit themselves to participating in communities of people on one site, (b) have paid accounts on all dozen sites, or (c) make do with fewer commenting features even if they have a primary paid account. This doesn't scale well.
In that context, my taking my posts to DW from LJ is an antisocial move for my LJ friends; it takes away their features when they comment on my posts. That's a strong incentive for me to keep my primary posting "home" on LJ.
Thus, I would recommend that commenting-related features not be paid-only, but be open to all accounts including in particular OpenID accounts. And I'd particularly recommend this for the "email a copy of my own comments" feature; as Lisa notes in the post I linked to, that's useful for tracking conversations -- which is particularly important when multiple sites are involved. The aspect of having a copy of one's comment to archive is also something that's to be important to a number of people.
(I recognize that this does risk some revenue loss; in fact, this feature was initially the one reason that I bought a LJ paid account. I do think the problems of not having it outweigh that, though, as it's also one of the main reasons that I'm not currently actively using my DW account much.)
This suggestion:
Should be implemented as-is.
5 (9.1%)
Should be implemented with changes. (please comment)
1 (1.8%)
Shouldn't be implemented.
39 (70.9%)
(I have no opinion)
10 (18.2%)
(Other: please comment)
0 (0.0%)
no subject
no subject
It doesn't address the "I'd like a copy of the comments I've written" issue, though.
Nor, for that matter, the "I'd like to put my posts on DW rather than LJ without feeling that I'm making it less pleasant for my friends to comment on them," which is really the crux of this suggestion for me.
Thanks for the suggestion, though.
no subject
I realize it will be less convenient, but, in some ways, that's the point of the paid feature set: to make the site more convenient for use to people who financially support it.
To my mind, the features which should be moved from the paid to the free category are features which make it easier to put material on DW for other people to read, or features which entice people to keep reading at the Dreamwidth website for a longer period of time than they might otherwise do.
This request is about making it easier to get data out of Dreamwidth, and that's exactly the sort of feature which should be paid. It's nice to have, but it doesn't actually make it more possible to use the basic service of the site.
no subject
1) Make revenue by reserving a much-desired but not crucial feature into paid-only (not crucial: anyone can, of course, save a copy of their own comments as they make them, or otherwise track posts).
2) Prevent server overload. Right now, only a small fraction of users have the option of having their own comments emailed to them, and not all of those use it (I don't). If *everyone* has the option of having their own comments sent to them, there's a chance for serious server drain, depending on how many opt-in, and stay opted-in even after they don't care for that aspect anymore. (It may turn out simpler for them to set up an email filter than find the setting spot on DW.)
it takes away their features when they comment on my posts
No, it gives them the features they've signed up for at DW. I don't agree that DW should offer for free features that are paid at LJ because the people who bought them at LJ miss them when they visit other journal sites.
(Is it reasonable to say that my friends "take away" my features when they post at LJ?)
While I like encouraging cross-journal activity, I don't mind the message, "if you only have enough money for one paid journal, and it's going to LJ, you're going to miss out on some of what DW has to offer."
I don't mind considering what features should fall in the "paid only" section of DW, and if enough people (including DW admin) think emailing your own comments should be an option for free users, I certainly wouldn't object. But I think this is a case where the best answer for DW is probably maintaining the current situation--and those who want the bells-and-whistles features can either pay for them, or ask someone to buy them some paid time (DW makes that *easy*), or hope for a random benefactor (again, something DW allows that LJ doesn't).
I'd rather free & OpenID accounts had more places & ways to request paid time donations than that the free/paid feature balance was upset.
no subject
But then, you have the slippery slope argument. If you make this paid feature available to everyone so OpenID users can use it, might as well make that feature free, too, and so on and so forth...
no subject
People who are making posts are "residents". They are making an online home here, and ought to be paying for the features that they use beyond the basic free stuff. In general, people will make an online home in one or two places, and it's reasonable to pay for each place.
People who are commenting are "guests". The may well make their online home somewhere else, but they are on DW because a DW user has invited them here for a conversation. In general, people will be commenting in lots of different places, depending on where their friends post. This is why OpenID exists, and why OpenID accounts exist -- to allow people to do this easily!
Services that are provided to "guests" are, in a sense, being provided to the "residents" whom they are guests of. It is of value to me, as a person writing posts, that my friends can comment on those posts easily and conveniently. And, by value, I mean something that I as a "resident" am willing to pay for and which strongly influences my choice of hosting sites.
If I could envision a way that it would sanely work for "residents" to be able to pay an extra fee or something so that "guests" could use paid commenting features on their journals, I would suggest that, and gladly pay for it. But I can't see a way to do that.
Thus, what I am suggesting is that there should not be features that apply to guests -- more specifically, to people who use the site only to comment on other people's posts, which they find by way of reposting on LJ or RSS feeds or other off-site methods -- which are not free. I don't think that's a very long list; in fact, I think this is pretty much the only paid feature on it.
no subject
Comment editing, too.
And, from your original suggestion --
On DW, one has to have a paid account in order to get these copies, even if one is logging in via OpenID from a paid LJ account.
-- I should point out that receiving copies of your own comments is also a paid/plus benefit on LJ. (I mention this only because many people are unaware, since very few people have basic accounts anymore; if they don't have a paid account they are likely to have a plus account.)
no subject
I don't think that favoring OpenID activity over DW account activity will help DW get to the "critical mass" point that will sustain it long-term.
more specifically, to people who use the site only to comment on other people's posts, which they find by way of reposting on LJ or RSS feeds or other off-site methods
But there's no way to separate "only use it to comment on posts they spotted elsewhere" from "use it to keep up with a readlist, and comment on several communities."
If I could envision a way that it would sanely work for "residents" to be able to pay an extra fee or something so that "guests" could use paid commenting features
*That's* worth considering, if someone could figure out how to make it work. The ability to sponsor paid-ish activities for visitors to a journal would be terrific. Couldn't do, "you get five extra userpics when you're here," but could potentially have "anyone can edit comments in my journal."
no subject
Please do suggest that, because I think it's worth discussing!
no subject
I don't see a way to do that either, but I hope someone will from the technical end. It is the only option I see that makes sense - cost-wise, giving away comment emailing is not a good choice for the site, I don't think.
no subject
no subject
And I see the reason in that you should get something of extra value when you bother to pay for a site. As much as I like DW, I would not buy an account if it didn't bring me extra features I want a lot. I mean, polls you can easily get elsewhere and embed if you absolutely need one, my circle/flist is not nearly large enough that any of the limits are bothersome, I don't have more than 1000 tags or need longer link lists, DW does not have ads I need to get rid off (which is great of course, but one of the main reasons to pay on LJ is that you are annoyed on LJ whenever you look at it from a computer where you don't have AdBlock), I don't use moodthemes or need a special style, I don't use text messages, I don't need the email or domain forwarding, and I could possibly stop x-posting to the IJ version of my journal if I only had one x-post slot, I never use that mass security tool, and while I love the search, my journal is google indexed and I make backup copies that I import to my computer that I can search locally, so I can make do without it... So when I go through the list of paid account benefits, what reamins for me is more icons, more tracking notifications, and getting my comments emailed.