Track mentions

[desh]

Title:
Track mentions

Area:
notifications

Summary:
Enable users to track when they're mentioned elsewhere on DW.

Description:
Any time someone writes an entry with <user name="desh"> (desh) in it, that should fire off an event that I can subscribe to and be notified for.

Ideally, this would fire every time an entry is posted that I have access to and that mentions my name, every time an entry that I have access to is edited and mentions my name but didn't mention it pre-editing, and every time the access rules for an entry are edited such that I now have access to it and my name's in it. (It's probably a bad idea to also notify for all old entries any time someone adds me to their access list, though.)

The same would happen for new/edited comments (either as a separate "when I'm mentioned in a comment" event, or as part of the same "when I'm mentioned anywhere" event).

EDIT: There are a lot of variations and pros and cons discussed in the comments below. For those who are not interested in reading all of it, I'd like to direct you to this thread, in which a so-far-noncontroversial modification is discussed.

Poll #2387 Track mentions

Open to: Registered Users, detailed results viewable to: All, participants: 51

View Respondents

This suggestion:

View Answers

Should be implemented as-is.
11 (21.6%)

Should be implemented with changes. (please comment)
17 (33.3%)

Shouldn't be implemented.
19 (37.3%)

(I have no opinion)
4 (7.8%)

(Other: please comment)
0 (0.0%)

Comments

[denise]

Mark and I have actually talked about this before! He was All For; I was tentatively for, but only if it were either opt-in or there were a way to make an individual mention not trigger a notification, for privacy reasons.

I would be All For if it were a new way of forming a tag that would notify, and the existing <user name> didn't notify, too. Basically, I just don't like changing a behavior that people have been relying on for ten years to do something so radically different, and notifying people that they're being talked about is radically different.

[coraa]

but only if it were either opt-in or there were a way to make an individual mention not trigger a notification, for privacy reasons.

I agree with this. Technically, any mention in a public post is, well, public. But I think that making it opt-out in some fashion would greatly reduce the massive potential for drama, wanksplosions, and other social nightmares. Security is one concern, but drama is definitely another, and I'd prefer to massage features so that the drama potential is rather less. :)

[zvi]

Hmm, I'm not sure a specific opt out is necessary. I mean, wouldn't not doing it in username format suffice? (Or even doing it <user name=exampleusername site=dreamwidth.org>?

[cheyinka]

I would be for it if it were something like <user name="cheyinka" notify="yes"> or something, and if I could turn off seeing those notifications and someone could make eir journal a notify-free zone, whether with a new option or by opting out of both site search and the latest-entries feed.

[rydra_wong]

Seconding (or thirding, or fourthing, or whatever it is by this point).

IMHO, it would really need to be an opt-in (and probably an opt-in on both ends -- "yes I want to notify people that they've been mentioned" and "yes I want to receive notifications").

There have been umpteen times (notably during RaceFail) when I've mentioned someone publicly, and been prepared to have them find out about it, but would really not have wanted them to get an instant e-mail saying OH HAI YOU'VE JUST BEEN MENTIONED.

To sum up: W*ll Sh*tt*rl*y. L** G*ldb*rg.

[cesy]

I don't think this does anything that can't be done by repeatedly using the search-the-site tool on your name, so I'd be happy with it, privacy-wise.

[zvi]

I like the idea, but only if there are GIGANTUOUS WARNINGS before you start tracking that way, to warn you that you are going to turn into a hugely paranoid freak who finds confirmation that either (a) many people secretly hate you or (b) no one is talking about you, like, ever.

I also think that the entry notification should only fire off on journals which permit either site search or latest entry inclusion. If someone has opted out of both of those things (and put in a robots.txt file) then I think the service should respect their attempt at security through obscurity, in this one specific instance where we're changing behavior they have come to rely on.

And I think when I'm mentioned in a comment definitely needs to be a separate event.

[cesy]

Good point, this should respect existing site search settings.

[desh]

I agree with your point about security through obscurity when it comes to someone's own posts and settings in their personal journal, but not when it comes to comments in that journal, or to other posters in a community. See my explanation to cheyinka above.

[ratcreature]

Yes this. I made my journal fully searchable internal and external, so obviously ayone could just search for their name in my public entries, but I couldn't do that in some other people's journals because they disabled search. So I agree that this should not be a workaround to circumvent intentional obscurity.

[feathertail]

I agree that there are definitely concerns here. Trackback is something other blogging systems rely on already though, and I think it'd be great to have it here.

Now if only we could have it work cross-site too. Maybe if it were a literal trackback, and it triggered when somebody clicked on it ...

[denise]

We do have plans to add actual pingbacks, yeah.

[mskala]

If someone's talking about me, that's my business, period. I'm not in favour of allowing a way for someone to make a mention but turn off the notify. Granted, there are a thousand and one ways they can accomplish it on their own (for instance, mentioning the name without using the tag), but I'd prefer that the system not offer "turn off the notify" as a supported feature.

[kerravonsen]

If someone's talking about me, that's my business, period.
Actually, no. It is also the business of the person doing the talking.

[kerravonsen]

It seems like a nifty idea, but I can see from the comments that there are a lot of wrinkles in it. I voted for "with changes" but I'm not sure which changes are the best ones!

[mllesays]

Me too.

[jumpuphigh]

+1

I think taking the time to digest the feedback and writing a new proposal to be voted upon would be helpful.

[rho]

My 2 cents:

Cent the first: I think that people are overestimating the possibility for drama here. While Dreamwidth and Twitter are different entities, I think it's telling that the same feature on Twitter manages to exist peacefully. The impression that I have is that most people fundamentally understand that not everything said about them will be glowingly positive.

Cent the second: It's already a simple matter to run a site search for your username to see who's been mentioning you, in entries at least. It would also be a fairly simple matter for someone technically inclined to write a script which did so automatically every hour and popped up a notification any time there was a new result.

[matgb]

Exactly. I'd not want a set of notifications, but having a search page I can go to would be nice.

I already have bloglink searches through most major services bookmarked (not many links since I stopped posting, strangely), but they're all unreliable, especially with DW.

If DW could tell me if someone links to me on any post I can see, that'd be cool, but I wouldn't want it clogging my inbox, a search page'd be enough.

[pseudomonas]

If implementented, this would also introduce a new spam vector.

[ratcreature]

Yikes, yeah. I hadn't even thought of that. But I suppose such notifications can always be used, like on LJ where some spammers exploit that many people choose to be notified if they are friended, and then when you get the friending notification, you check their profile to see who it is, and then there are a bunch of advertising links. :(

Can Open ID comments make this user code and would trigger a notification? Maybe if was only proper accounts there would be less chance of getting notifications due to stuff like "I think this penis extension is great, ratcreature" or the like.

shorter username code with ping option

[noracharles]

After reading the discussion I changed my vote to "Should be implemented with changes."

I don't use facebook or twitter or buzz, but now I understand that it's about inviting someone to join the conversation.

My vote is for creating a shorter way to write usernames:

@noracharles for <user name=noracharles>
@nora_charles.lj for <user name=nora_charles site=livejournal.com>
@noracharles* for <user name=noracharles ping>

(I don't know enough about code to know whether an asterisk would be the best ping symbol, it's just a suggestion.)

Re: shorter username code with ping option

[nacbrie]

@nora_charles.lj for nora_charles

Oh, yes. Never mind the faux-html for plain old usernames, but the LJ usernames are almost three times longer than the actual usernames...

A shorter way to write usernames would be brilliant!!

[blnchflr]

I don't care about pings, but being able to shorthand usernames even further would be awesome.

[trinity_clare]

*late to the party*

If/when DW implements pingbacks, I think this would fit in nicely with that behavior. (IIRC, both the person doing the referencing and the person being referenced have to have pingbacks enabled in order to trigger one, which would circumvent cases of pinging people you don't want to ping.)