Expand suggestions to include 'discuss-first' suggestions

[kaigou]

Title:
Expand suggestions to include 'discuss-first' suggestions

Area:
suggestions, discussions

Summary:
Create option to discuss suggestions (without poll) when needed, prior to formal suggestion submission.

Description:
I have a bad habit of identifying a problem and then identifying three (or more) ways I can see would work as resolution; I'm also aware of other folks who've identified problems but have only the vaguest idea how it could be resolved. The Yes/No poll option is less than useful when the suggester has multiple suggested resolutions, or when there's only the vaguest notion of a resolution (especially if the "yes" answer shifts as the discussion continues). The option for discussion could help suggesters clarify answers/ideas prior to the actual poll-containing post.

1. In cases where the suggester has multiple resolutions for a single suggestion, remove the Yes/No poll function and mark the post as "discussion".

2. If the comm-mod wants to open the floor despite an official position on the suggestion, the mod could re-title the suggestion with "Discussion" prefixing the post's title (eg from "add new icon" to "DISCUSSION: add new icon").

3. If a series of suggestions overlap and possibly even conflict, a discussion-post could list the highlight/intention of each and open the floor to discussing possible resolutions (eg "new icon" + "change icon" + "no icon" = "DISCUSSION: icons in X module", with links/summaries of relevant suggestions).

4. If an "anonymized" suggestion is sort of but not entirely clear to the comm-mod, transfer the post to the "discussion" queue instead. This would also allow a less potentially-confrontational venue for the anonymous suggester to participate as one of many voices in the discussion.

Poll #1811 Expand suggestions to include 'discuss-first' suggestions

Open to: Registered Users, detailed results viewable to: All, participants: 27

View Respondents

This suggestion:

View Answers

Should be implemented as-is.
4 (14.8%)

Should be implemented with changes. (please comment)
2 (7.4%)

Shouldn't be implemented.
14 (51.9%)

(I have no opinion)
5 (18.5%)

(Other: please comment)
2 (7.4%)

Comments

[kerravonsen]

I think it would be simpler to just add an option to the poll "needs discussion", or something like that.

[kaigou]

If the original suggestion says "problem, solution A, solution B, solution C" -- which, exactly is one saying "yes" to when the question is multiple choice? Removing the poll and stating explicitly that the post is for 'discussion' avoids the ambiguity of yes/no replies when there's no way to tell which option is getting the yes (or no).

If the question is not multiple choice, then "needs discussion" is redundant, being already covered by the existing 'see-comments' option(s).

[ratcreature]

I rather like that the suggestion community has a narrow focus on formal suggestions, so that things are posted here (ideally) after matters are clarified enough for suggestion that can be implemented or not and a poll makes sense. I think discussion of possibilities for problem solutions and all such vaguer things should maybe happen elsewhere, and once the poster has finished that process for their idea, the suggestion can be posted here as a result.

[kaigou]

In which case the suggestion should be rerouted to there, preferably with text in the make-a-suggestion page's opening paragraphs that says something like, "if you have multiple possible solutions or aren't sure of the best solution, use dw-___ community instead".

However, I left that out because that would've been, once again, providing multiple resolutions to a single suggestion... and while that would've made the post a living example of exactly what the post is suggesting be resolved, it would also defeat the value of having the yes/no option. Once again.

[ratcreature]

I'm not sure that what I was thinking of was necessarily for something to happen at another official community. I mean, maybe there is one for user such discussion, but I admit that personally, if I ran into something that doesn't work and I can't figure out what do do about it, I'd probably just go to the support, and if I had an idea for a suggestion but was not sure about it, or not sure about whether my meaning was clear, I'd just talk on an informal level with others, like say post in my own LJ and ask what my f-list thinks, and work it out until it is a suggestion.

I think the format requirements add a hurdle that is useful because otherwise more things that are not thought through, or just fuzzy general meandering discussions about the site would be submitted, and then the moderation would have to decide what fits here and what not to filter these discussions that aren't quite suggestions yet. Which maybe they could, but I think it is better that the users have to pre-filter their ideas into the more formal suggestions. I think the downside that in a few instances some useful suggestion is not easily fit into a poll is less than the upside of a narrow format.

[charmian]

I agree. I think it would be better to reserve suggestions for concrete proposals, rather than for identification of problems in search of a solution.IMHO, if there is only the "vaguest hint of a resolution," it would be better for the suggester to wait until they figure out a clear suggestion.

I think in the case where there are multiple ideas/suggestions, instead of making one suggestion (for example, in the recent anon suggestions post, there were actually two suggestions that were not really the same suggestion: making suggestions anonymized and making it possible to turn off notifications on suggestions posts. IMHO, these two are separate ideas and it would have been better to make two suggestions), the person should choose the best one, or do several suggestions. I think cases where people don't have a response covered under yes/no are exactly what the "other" option was made for.

[cesy]

I also think this is sensible, though I wouldn't be opposed to a separate category of posts for discussion. At the moment, Denise and Mark do discussion-type posts in their official journals, but it would be good to label somewhere for users to do that and hash ideas out. Maybe dw_beta?

[aveleh]

Maybe having two possible polls?

The default:
( ) Should be implemented as-is.
( ) Should be implemented with changes. (please comment)
( ) Shouldn't be implemented.
( ) (I have no opinion)
( ) (Other: please comment)

And a discussion based one:
( ) Should be implemented (please comment)
( ) Shouldn't be implemented.
( ) (I have no opinion)
( ) (Other: please comment)

[pauamma]

This would work. Or a discussion suggestion could completely bypass the suggestion generator and just post to the comm. (It would still be moderated.)

[beet]

I have some sympathy for this problem, but I think posters would be likely to become lazy and take the "discussion" option too often--even when they might actually be able to make a specific suggestion.

I guess I'm a bit of a cynic on this point, but I'd rather have a few messy and awkward polls to many more suggestions that are less well thought out than the community's usual fine ideas.

[ninetydegrees]

I'm for keeping the same template for every suggestion. If the poster thinks of several ways to implement their suggestions, it's up to her/him to detail them as clearly as possible and to make it obvious to readers that they are several solutions and that they should comment mentioning their preference.

[triadruid]

This. The poll DOES need some work ("needs more discussion/revision" would be a great addition, as a middle ground between approval and rejection), but I don't think this is the right way to do it.

[kaigou]

I think "needs more discussion/revision" would work just fine, since that's letting people quasi-tag the post as a discussion instead of just saying yes/no, because the flat yes/no doesn't always apply. Sometimes the best response really is, "okay, good start, but needs some work".

[turlough]

Hmmm, I thought that was what "Other: please comment" was for?

[pauamma]

Not always the case. See the way http://dw-suggestions.dreamwidth.org/57658.html was voted down, but http://dw-suggestions.dreamwidth.org/105294.html was accepted.

[triadruid]

Yeah, sometimes I use "Other' as (my problem with this isn't actually with your suggestion itself, but with some feature/bug/planned expansion that intersects with it).