Display options for the navigation strip too limited (?)

[jana]

Title:
Display options for the navigation strip too limited (?)

Area:
navigation strip

Summary:
The display options for the navigation strip should include more, um, options.

Description:
You have three options to choose from to display the navigation strip; basically, you can choose between display for

a) you and logged-out accounts on your journal
b) journals in your Circle
c) journals not in your Circle

My problem is option a), because I have never quite understood why people who are not logged-in should see the nav strip on my journal just because I use it frequently as a navigation tool. How are these two even related? It would make much more sense if I could choose between

1) display for you
2) display for you *and* logged-out accounts on your journal
3) display for logged-out accounts on your journal
4) display for journals in your Circle
5) display for journals not in your Circle

Suggestion: Divide option a) into three different options, as described above (option 1-3).

Drawbacks: Well, it would mean more options to choose from, and it is already difficult to see what one's options are; it could get to cluttered if more options would be added.

As a little side note: the phrase "logged-out accounts on your journal" is somewhat confusing, because it implies that only people with a dw account will look at your journal. Maybe something like "people who are not logged in" is a more accurate (general) expression.

ETA: The comments below indicate that a lot of people do not really know how the display options available today affect the display of the nav bar. Which made me realize that my suggestion would only confuse people even more. So I sat down and thought about it bit more; I posted my thoughts in a comment here. This means this entry is not so much a suggestion anymore as it is a place to brainstorm some new/better ideas.

Poll #2056 Display options for the navigation strip too limited (?)

Open to: Registered Users, detailed results viewable to: All, participants: 24

View Respondents

This suggestion:

View Answers

Should be implemented as-is.
1 (4.2%)

Should be implemented with changes. (please comment)
1 (4.2%)

Shouldn't be implemented.
9 (37.5%)

(I have no opinion)
11 (45.8%)

(Other: please comment)
2 (8.3%)

Comments

[zvi]

There are two reasons you and logged out accounts on your journal are connected.

One, if you go to your journal while you are not logged in, your journal will still be presented to you as you would like it to be.

Two, on DW, the site preference is to let the poster control display of their own journal, but letting logged-in users override. Logged out users are generally left to the whims of the poster.

[jana]

One, if you go to your journal while you are not logged in, your journal will still be presented to you as you would like it to be.

I guess I can agree with you here to some extent, but if I'm not logged in, there isn't that much I can do with the nav strip. But maybe that's just me who uses the nav stip only when logged in...

Two, on DW, the site preference is to let the poster control display of their own journal, but letting logged-in users override. Logged out users are generally left to the whims of the poster.

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here... How does the nav strip help logged-out users if they, as you say, are "left to the whims of the poster"? And I don't feel like I have control over my journal if I only can choose between "nav strip on my journal & for logged-out users" and "no nav bar at all on my journal"? Other dw users can override my display choices anyway if they choose "display for journals in your circle" and/or "display for journals not in your circle".

[zvi]

Well, the most immediate benefit to a logged out user of the navstrip is that it allows one to login without navigating to another page, but it also provides the search function and I think maybe some other functionality.

Other dw users can override my display choices anyway if they choose "display for journals in your circle" and/or "display for journals not in your circle".

Other DW users cannot override your display choices for you. "display for journals in my circle" means when you are logged in and viewing the journal of someone in your circle, the navstrip should display. This is w/o regard to whether or not the journal you are viewing chooses to display the navstrip.

Maybe I was not clear, but on DW, the original journal owner can customize to their heart's content, but logged in users may override. That's the site inclination.

I guess what I don't understand about your proposal is why it's a problem if logged out users view the navigation strip on your journal?

[jana]

Other DW users cannot override your display choices for you. [...]

ETA: Forget to include my answer on this one here. Well, obviously, if you want to view the nav strip everywhere on the site, you should see it, no matter what other journal owners chose themselves. That's what I meant with being able to override someone's display options. I guess we're talking about the same thing here.

Maybe I was not clear, but on DW, the original journal owner can customize to their heart's content, [...]

Yes, and I have no problem with this. I mean everyone who has a dw account knows what's the nav strip is for, and many people find it to be a useful tool.

I guess what I don't understand about your proposal is why it's a problem if logged out users view the navigation strip on your journal?

Because not only logged out users can view a journal or community. And if you don't have a dw account and don't want one either, you still see this distracting & ugly thing at the top of the browser window. I always hated this on blogspot...

That said, if people don't mind, well, so be it, I won't delete my account just because of this slightly annoying thing... ;)

[coraa]

the most immediate benefit to a logged out user of the navstrip is that it allows one to login without navigating to another page

This is why I like that the navbar displays to logged-out users—the simplest and most convenient way for me to log in to my account is to go to my friends page and then just hit the 'log in' button. It's very helpful for me. Obviously mileage varies, but that's why I'm glad it displays to me when I'm logged out.

[jana]

[...] the simplest and most convenient way for me to log in to my account is to go to my friends page [...]

Your friends/circle/reading page is on your journal, that is, your choices wouldn't be affected by my choices (& suggestion).

All the comments also got me thinking, so I sat down and thought about it a bit more. You can read it here, if you're interested.

[susanreads]

I don't think it needs more options so much as a different explanation of the ones we've got. I didn't get the thing about logged-out users until Zvi explained it above. I use the navbar as a navigation aid and want to see it everywhere that isn't site-schemed, other people hate it and don't want to see it at all. What are the other options for?

[jana]

I don't think it needs more options so much as a different explanation of the ones we've got. [...]

I sat down and thought about it a bit more, and came up with two options. You can read it here, if you're interested.

[archane]

I agree that the wording for "logged-out accounts on your journal" is confusing, and "People who are not logged in" would be a much more intuitive phrasing to capture the meaning.

I would actually prefer not to have more options regarding the nav-strip, however. My use of the navigation strip is minimal, and having more options related to when it appears would - for me - just be annoying.

[kyrielle]

I usually use the site from my friends-page only. The nav strip being present even for logged-off users lets me log in quickly if I've been logged out - and gives me an immediate visual that I have been logged out. (I suppose having it not be there would also, except I'm not sure I'd register that; its presence without the logged-in appearance I note most of the time.)

Of course, that's more useful to me at LJ, which is more prone to log me out unexpectedly. :P

[jana]

I usually use the site from my friends-page only.

As I also told coraa, your friends/circle/reading page is on your journal, that is, your display choices wouldn't be affected by my suggestion.

[fairlight]

Opposed to anything which will override the preferences users have set about seeing the navstrip. In other words, if they've said they don't want it, you have no business forcing them to.

[jana]

My suggestion would not override other user's preferences regarding the nav bar; I just want to have more control of the thing in my journal. Anyway, I've modified my suggestion a bit in a comment to afuna -- here -- in case you're interested.

[afuna]

A bit of trivia: when we split up the options for the navstrip, we had originally split it up into nine different options, before deciding it was too confusing and collapsing it into the three above.

I don't feel strongly about splitting up the first option either way, but I do feel obligated to note that you could just divide option a) into two options ("display for you on your journal" and "display for logged-out accounts on your journal"), rather than three. Then you could select your option 2) by checking both options.

[jana]

I do feel obligated to note that you could just divide option a) into two options ("display for you on your journal" and "display for logged-out accounts on your journal"), rather than three. [...]

That's what I meant; I just listed option 2 to make it more clear what options would be available. Apparently, it wasn't very clear :)

Wow, nine different options. That's a lot LOL And since you seem to have been involved in the process of selecting the different display options -- what's the reasoning behind the split between circle and non-circle journals? I agree with ratcreature here, that is, why would I want to display the nav bar only on some journals and not all the other journals as well?

Anyway, the comments on my suggestion indicate that a lot of people do not really understand how the options available today affect the display of the nav bar. So I sat down and thought about it a little more. Why not use the following two options instead? Display...

1) ... always on my journal AND/OR
2) ... always on all journals & communities I view

1 = You see the nav bar always on your journal, no matter if you're logged in or not.
2= You see the nav bar on all journals & communities you view, including your own, if you're logged in
1+2 = You can still see the nav bar on your journal even if you're logged out (and you see it in every single journal/community you visit when you're logged in).
None of the above = No nav bar on your journal when you're logged out; when you're logged in, no nav bar, no matter which journal or community you visit.

I think (hope...) this would be easier to understand. Plus, less options!

[kyrielle]

I could go with this. :)

[nacbrie]

+1

[ratcreature]

I don't really care much as long as I can easily see what I need to click to always have a navbar for myself no matter where I am on the site and not have it vanish on me (that it is not there in the site style already disgruntles me, regardless of similar links being there). I never really understood why the option to choose to display it was split into journals in my circle and other journals. If I find the navbar useful on journals not my own why would I want to display it only on some and not all?

[jana]

I never really understood why the option to choose to display it was split into journals in my circle and other journals.

I agree with you, the split between circle & non-circle journals doesn't seem very useful.

[triadruid]

I realize it makes me a heretic, but I think the navbar options are stupendously non-granular at present on both LJ and DW. What does "Circle" have to do with the navbar?!? Why are my viewing preferences entwined with what my display preferences?

[jana]

I agree, it's very confusing. There has to be a better view to do it, but my first (initial) suggestion won't solve it and I'm not sure that my other suggestion is so much better... Have to think about it a bit more :)